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Old 08-31-2011, 04:58 AM
Christopher Chan
 
Default OT: help with email list reading programs w/ best features to read the centos and other lists that can filter people etc

On Wednesday, August 31, 2011 12:46 PM, R - elists wrote:
>
> we need to filter out various peoples posts on this list
>
> would some kind soul(s) please direct us in locating the best email list
> reading programs w/ the best features to read the centos and other lists.

It's not an email program but I think it has the best filtering
capabilities of all - the brain.

>
> the CentOS list signal/noise ratio is so bad that we need something better
> than just outlook like clients or whatever

Huh? What signal/noise ratio? I don't see any of the usual "can't be
bother to read manuals/to use google" suspects...unless you're
complaining about our most recent top poster...

>
> appropriate windows and linux recommendations would be most appreciated
>

How about mutt as a client?
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Old 08-31-2011, 05:02 AM
Frank Cox
 
Default OT: help with email list reading programs w/ best features to read the centos and other lists that can filter people etc

On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:46:53 -0700
R - elists wrote:

> we need to filter out various peoples posts on this list
>
> would some kind soul(s) please direct us in locating the best email list
> reading programs w/ the best features to read the centos and other lists.
>
> the CentOS list signal/noise ratio is so bad that we need something better
> than just outlook like clients or whatever

Hello Mr. Elists (or may I call you R?)

Most email clients are capable of filtering incoming mail by subject, sender,
and other fields. I note that you are using MS Outlook and I have absolutely
no experience with that program, but any email client I've used in the past
several years has allowed filtering in some manner.

My personal favourite email client is Sylpheed (which is available for both
Linux and Windows -- you can find a pre-compiled Sylpheed rpm for Centos 5 and
Centos 6 on my website if you're interested) and it can easily be used to
filter and sort email by just about any field that you choose to use.

With Sylpheed, you can set it up to filter "Sender=Whoever" to "Trash" or
"Delete from Server" if you want. Just look under the Configuration - Filter
Settings menu; it's pretty self-explanatory.

--
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Old 08-31-2011, 07:54 AM
wwp
 
Default OT: help with email list reading programs w/ best features to read the centos and other lists that can filter people etc

Hello R,


On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:46:53 -0700 "R - elists" <lists07@abbacomm.net> wrote:

>
> we need to filter out various peoples posts on this list
>
> would some kind soul(s) please direct us in locating the best email list
> reading programs w/ the best features to read the centos and other lists.
>
> the CentOS list signal/noise ratio is so bad that we need something better
> than just outlook like clients or whatever
>
> appropriate windows and linux recommendations would be most appreciated

Claws Mail does that work for me for ages. Filtering (dispatching
mails, quick filtering view), tagging, coloring, etc..


Regards,

--
wwp
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Old 08-31-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Default OT: help with email list reading programs w/ best features to read the centos and other lists that can filter people etc

Lamar Owen wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 31, 2011 12:46:53 AM R - elists wrote:
<snip>
> While I use Kmail (which can do very powerful filtering based on a number
<snip>
So how is kmail these days? I jumped ship to t-bird about '03 or '05, when
I got tired of kmail munging my mbox (I tend to have thousands of emails
stored there, before I get around to moving them to a dated folder...).

mark

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Old 08-31-2011, 02:58 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default OT: help with email list reading programs w/ best features to read the centos and other lists that can filter people etc

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:46 PM, R - elists <lists07@abbacomm.net> wrote:
>
> we need to filter out various peoples posts on this list
>
> would some kind soul(s) please direct us in locating the best email list
> reading programs w/ the best features to read the centos and other lists.
>
> the CentOS list signal/noise ratio is so bad that we need something better
> than just outlook like clients or whatever
>
> appropriate windows and linux recommendations would be most appreciated
>

I didn't expect this, but I am beginning to like gmail's web interface
better than dedicated mail programs. I used to use fetchmail to pull
it to an imap server that I managed and accessed from various clients
and my phone via imap, but for an assortment of reasons I want to
retire that server and recently have been accessing gmail directly
through imap, the gmail phone app, and the web interface, and after
configuring the options a bit the web interface seems to be winning.
It now has a fuzzy concept of 'important' mail that it can display
first, and its folder operations are conceptually more like tagging
where 'inbox' is just another tag, although from imap they appear as
typical folders. The normal thing to do with disposed mail is to
'archive' it which puts it out of sight, but it still appears in
searches and threaded conversation view - and being google, they
obviously have better search capability than you are going to find in
your own mail client. For me, the conceptual differences are more
than making up for what you lose in a web-based interface - and when
you want you can always use a real client via imap as long as you
don't subscribe to the massive 'all mail' folder that holds the
archive. I don't do any pre-filtering or sorting since you can just
archive everything and still be able to find it in a search, but the
facility is there if you want it and the results appear the same via
multiple imap clients, the phone app, or the web interface. And yes,
I know it is all just a ploy to get you to stay logged in all the time
in the browser so your google search queries are tied to your login as
well as your IP, but they are really, really good at it...

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:34 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default OT: help with email list reading programs w/ best features to read the centos and other lists that can filter people etc

On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 10:15 AM, R - elists <lists07@abbacomm.net> wrote:
>
> sometimes people on the list just get beligerant, drunk, and/or stupid and
> need to be filtered.

But filters tend to be stupid as well. And once you are involved in
a conversation you should have a certain responsibility to follow it
to the bitter end. Filters mostly don't understand that (but gmail
will push a reply to your own message into the 'important' view).

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 08-31-2011, 04:23 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default OT: help with email list reading programs w/ best features to read the centos and other lists that can filter people etc

On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 10:48 AM, R - elists <lists07@abbacomm.net> wrote:
>
>> But filters tend to be stupid as well. * And once you are involved in
>> a conversation you should have a certain responsibility to
>> follow it to the bitter end. *Filters mostly don't understand
>> that (but gmail will push a reply to your own message into
>> the 'important' view).
>>
>
> i hear ya Les
>
> thing is, the term plonk from a most recent post reminded me what i am
> looking for, ie killfile
>
> ...i just have to figure out how to best implement.
>
> now, please dont get me wrong, ive made a mistake or three on lists, yet
> gave apology.
>
> i am suprised that more folks havent spoken up about favorite "threaded
> email readers" or has everyone just gone to Thunderbird or other similar?
>
> reason: some say changing subject or hijacking messes things up...

Threads really only matter when responses are slow enough that you
forget the context - in which case you probably aren't all that
interested anyway. With thunderbird I normally don't use a threaded
view but sometimes flip to it (which is sort of awkward except on a
Mac where you can use OS facilities to map a key to a multi-step
operation). But in gmail I do like their normal 'conversation'
presentation where the previously read messages are mostly hidden but
accessible with a click and the unread messages are all opened
together with large blocks of quoted text mostly hidden. I'm used to
reading 'backwards' in time order so I know what has already been
answered, but the gmail view is a little nicer to see the new portion
in order and in context.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 09-01-2011, 03:52 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default OT: help with email list reading programs w/ best features to read the centos and other lists that can filter people etc

On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 10:48 AM, R - elists <lists07@abbacomm.net> wrote:
>> i am suprised that more folks havent spoken up about favorite "threaded
>> email readers" or has everyone just gone to Thunderbird or other similar?

AFAIK, every recent mail client has threading support. They should all
basically be feature-complete, as long as you are not asking for
something *very* awkward. ;-)

> Threads really only matter when responses are slow enough that you
> forget the context - in which case you probably aren't all that
> interested anyway.

Or when you are involved in several conversations at the same time,
and don't want to get confused. Or when you want your e-mail
correspondences (and especially mailing lists) to be sorted in a neat
way, like a filesystem tree. It can be very convenient, I am using
threaded view in KMail all the time, for all my e-mail activity ---
very easy to organize e-mails in an intuitive way. :-)

> *With thunderbird I normally don't use a threaded
> view but sometimes flip to it (which is sort of awkward except on a
> Mac where you can use OS facilities to map a key to a multi-step
> operation). *But in gmail I do like their normal 'conversation'
> presentation where the previously read messages are mostly hidden but
> accessible with a click and the unread messages are all opened
> together with large blocks of quoted text mostly hidden. *I'm used to
> reading 'backwards' in time order so I know what has already been
> answered, but the gmail view is a little nicer to see the new portion
> in order and in context.

What I miss a lot in gmail's web interface is proper threading. That
"conversation" organization of e-mails is essentially the same thing,
only done worse. There is no way to distinguish sub-threads of a given
thread. Everything within one "conversation" is being displayed
linearly, instead of a natural tree-ordering. When a thread starts to
branch out into several directions at the same time, gmail's
"conversation" idea becomes worse than useless.

I use a gmail account on a regular basis, but try to avoid their web
interface whenever I can. KMail is so much better (for me at least)...
;-)

HTH, :-)
Marko
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Old 09-01-2011, 04:37 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default OT: help with email list reading programs w/ best features to read the centos and other lists that can filter people etc

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Threads really only matter when responses are slow enough that you
>> forget the context - in which case you probably aren't all that
>> interested anyway.
>
> Or when you are involved in several conversations at the same time,
> and don't want to get confused. Or when you want your e-mail
> correspondences (and especially mailing lists) to be sorted in a neat
> way, like a filesystem tree. It can be very convenient, I am using
> threaded view in KMail all the time, for all my e-mail activity ---
> very easy to organize e-mails in an intuitive way. :-)

I've never been able to sort things in a way that makes any sense -
and I don't expect conversations to have any natural order. I just
want a very good search mechanism to find anything based on any
snippet I happen to remember or need at the time.

>> *With thunderbird I normally don't use a threaded
>> view but sometimes flip to it (which is sort of awkward except on a
>> Mac where you can use OS facilities to map a key to a multi-step
>> operation). *But in gmail I do like their normal 'conversation'
>> presentation where the previously read messages are mostly hidden but
>> accessible with a click and the unread messages are all opened
>> together with large blocks of quoted text mostly hidden. *I'm used to
>> reading 'backwards' in time order so I know what has already been
>> answered, but the gmail view is a little nicer to see the new portion
>> in order and in context.
>
> What I miss a lot in gmail's web interface is proper threading. That
> "conversation" organization of e-mails is essentially the same thing,
> only done worse. There is no way to distinguish sub-threads of a given
> thread. Everything within one "conversation" is being displayed
> linearly, instead of a natural tree-ordering. When a thread starts to
> branch out into several directions at the same time, gmail's
> "conversation" idea becomes worse than useless.

True, but why do you care? Every message stands on its own and
normally carries any needed quoted context. I just read unread
messages and respond or not. The only place the history matters is if
you want to see if the answer you are about to give (or need yourself)
has already been posted. But if you are caught up on the unread
messages in the conversation (which all show at once) you'll already
know that, and in any case the branches in the history don't matter in
this regard.

> I use a gmail account on a regular basis, but try to avoid their web
> interface whenever I can. KMail is so much better (for me at least)...

I used to only log in when I wanted to search messages that I had
deleted locally, but It has gotten a lot better, with many more
options that you can activate in the settings. The one that matters
the most to me is to auto-advance to the next unread conversation as
you archive/delete the current one instead of re-displaying the inbox.
It is still slightly clunky in how you have to do multi-selects and
move things compared to native applications, but not bad overall and
meshes conceptually with the way the gmail phone app works so it is
easy to stay current when reading on the phone but put off replying
until you have a better keyboard. And of course the web interface
means you don't have to configure a bunch of stuff to get imap readers
synchronized across all of your computers (which I did anyway with
thunderbird - I just don't use it as often now).

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:05 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default OT: help with email list reading programs w/ best features to read the centos and other lists that can filter people etc

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What I miss a lot in gmail's web interface is proper threading. That
>> "conversation" organization of e-mails is essentially the same thing,
>> only done worse. There is no way to distinguish sub-threads of a given
>> thread. Everything within one "conversation" is being displayed
>> linearly, instead of a natural tree-ordering. When a thread starts to
>> branch out into several directions at the same time, gmail's
>> "conversation" idea becomes worse than useless.
>
> True, but why do you care? *Every message stands on its own and
> normally carries any needed quoted context.

Oh, if only that were true all the time and with all posters... ;-)

> *I just read unread
> messages and respond or not. *The only place the history matters is if
> you want to see if the answer you are about to give (or need yourself)
> has already been posted. *But if you are caught up on the unread
> messages in the conversation (which all show at once) you'll already
> know that, and in any case the branches in the history don't matter in
> this regard.

One typical scenario is when I am interested in following one branch
of a thread (i.e. a subthread), while I wish to ignore the rest. In
KMail's threaded view this is trivial --- subthreads are just various
branches in the thread tree, and I can always mark this branch as
interesting, that as uninteresting, etc., and keep following only the
interesting part of the thread. I typically don't have time to read
through all messages in a well-sized thread. In gmail this is
literally impossible, and I need to go through *all* messages in the
conversation, since the interesting branches and unimportant branches
are mixed together. It is just annoying when I have to scroll through
the entire conversation, scanning every message for relevance. The SNR
can become high within a thread, and it is a pain when all messages
are displayed indiscriminantly.

I am using the gmail interface right now (unfortunately, I'm away from
my laptop since last week), and it is already getting on my nerves in
several threads on Fedora and CentOS lists.

Your usecase is probably different from mine. If you always have time
to read through the whole thread, I agree that subthreading isn't
important. But nevertheless, it's a pity that gmail's web interface
doesn't support this, since there are people (like me) who would find
proper threading very useful. In general I don't complain since KMail
resolves this problem for me, but gmail devs would really gain some
points in my eyes if they would implement real threading. ;-)

Best, :-)
Marko
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