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Old 04-09-2012, 08:09 AM
Tony van der Hoff
 
Default skype?

On 09/04/12 08:22, Scott Ferguson wrote:


SIP will currently work with the Skype network - if being able to
communicate is your only requirement.

This is interesting. Do you mean I could install SIP, and communicate
with my wedded to skype contacts? Voice, video, text?


I was under the impression that Skype was so proprietary that nothing
else would co-exist!


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Old 04-09-2012, 10:53 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default skype?

On 09/04/12 18:09, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> On 09/04/12 08:22, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>
>> SIP will currently work with the Skype network - if being able to
>> communicate is your only requirement.
>>
> This is interesting. Do you mean I could install SIP, and communicate
> with my wedded to skype contacts? Voice, video, text?


Skype network is distinct from the soft-phone components.

I'll do a little digging and find out more about the services that do
that if you like.
To the best of my foggy recollections it's commercial Skype to SIP (and
maybe other protocol) bridges - but it's possible there are other
variations.

A search engine can tell you more. I'm lazy and I don't want to appear
to know something I just looked up and repeated like a monkey ;-p

>
> I was under the impression that Skype was so proprietary that nothing
> else would co-exist!
>

I suspect the new owners may favour the "not co-exist" line - but I've
no proof.

I do know work is currently being done to integrate it into two MS
products. And that early last year some restrictive changes where made
to the network - whether those restrictions were because of new
ownership, integration with MS products, or to limit compatibility with
the reversed code release I don't know.


While I favour open systems I'm opposed to enclaves - that leads to
ghettos, so I like to mix open and closed if only to force the closed to
allow the open (if that makes any sense).

I'd like to find an alternative to Skype - but while MS owns it I'll
continue to throw a few dollars at it every now and then - means they
have to lose revenue cutting off the GNU/Linux client, and helps stop
the world dividing into clients by platform enclaves.

Besides - I've had people get interest in GNU/Linux just because the
Skype client is better and contains no adds.

Kind regards

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Old 04-09-2012, 11:08 AM
Brian
 
Default skype?

On Mon 09 Apr 2012 at 10:09:59 +0200, Tony van der Hoff wrote:

> On 09/04/12 08:22, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>
>> SIP will currently work with the Skype network - if being able to
>> communicate is your only requirement.
>>
> This is interesting. Do you mean I could install SIP, and communicate
> with my wedded to skype contacts? Voice, video, text?

You don't really install SIP you use a SIP client (Ekiga or Linphone,
for example) to communicate with a gateway running the Skype client. The
gateway manipulates the Skype client using the SIP messages you send and
can be on your own machine or somebody else's machine. The first will
cost you time and effort; the second will probably cost money. The
gateway will provide voice but maybe not video.

Either way you cannot avoid running the Skype client, or its equivalent,
somewhere. If it is local you may as well use it (have you managed to
set it up yet?) to talk with your friends.

> I was under the impression that Skype was so proprietary that nothing
> else would co-exist!

Skype (the company) release enough information to allow a limited degree
of interworking with its client.



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Old 04-09-2012, 06:24 PM
"Russell L. Harris"
 
Default skype?

* Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> [120409 00:33]:
> On Sun 08 Apr 2012 at 17:53:02 +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>
> > * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguson.debian.user@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
> > ...

> To be an exact replacement which will work on the Skype network in the
> same way as the Skype client? Can't be done.
...
> > Ideally, it should be sufficiently similar and simple, so that I could
> > persuade the other guy (who almost invariably is running $kype on a
> > Window$ box) to install Ekiga.
...
> She's happy with what she has got. Why feel impelled to alter that?

I wish specifically to avoid the use of $kype channels. If possible,
I wish to converse directly and one-on-one with the other Ekiga user.

I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy, recording, and
non-exclusive license issues (an example being the license of
photo-sharing hosts to market photos which clients upload for sharing
with friends and family).

So, I am thinking that Ekiga is sufficiently similar to $kype that it
ought be possible for a non-technical Window$ user who managed to get
$kype installed and configured to likewise install and configure Ekiga
-- if he likewise values privacy in his communications with me.

This is no different than saying, "Instead of continuing to meet at
$tarbuck$, let's start meeting around the corner and down the street,
at the Java Hut, which is much more private."

Let him use $kype to talk to the rest of the world; but when he wishes
to talk with me, he can fire up Ekiga (or whatever), rather than
$kype. Of course, I realize that relatively few are willing to
accommodate me, unless the installation and setup is very simple.

RLH



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Old 04-09-2012, 11:03 PM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default skype?

On 10/04/12 04:24, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> * Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> [120409 00:33]:
>> On Sun 08 Apr 2012 at 17:53:02 +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>>
>>> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguson.debian.user@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
>>> ...

<snipped>

>
> I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,

Then, sadly, Ekiga is *not* the answer for your needs as it doesn't
support encryption. (one of the reasons it's not a fit for my needs).

Kphone, Jitsi, Mumble, QuteCom, Linphone, MicroSIP, SFLPhone, and Blink
do. Note that not all are multiplatform, see one of my previous posts to
this thread for a list of those that are ported to the three main PC
platforms.

Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of handing
out the private key.



<snipped>


Kind regards

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Old 04-10-2012, 04:39 PM
"Russell L. Harris"
 
Default skype?

* Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguson.debian.user@gmail.com> [120410 15:48]:
> On 10/04/12 04:24, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,
...
> Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of handing
> out the private key.

Which precisely is my concern.

The greater the diversity of transport, the better. And, in general,
the less the concern with being overheard, the better -- for such
concern reduces traffic, and a large stream is infinitely more
difficult to monitor than is a tiny stream.

>From the logistical standpoint, routine monitoring of peer-to-peer
conversations through a multitude of channels -- even unencoded -- is
almost impossible, even with keyword searching (which results in
innumerable false positives). But if every conversation goes through
the same pipeline, even encryption can be overcome.

RLH

"How could one chase a thousand, or two put to flight ten thousand,
unless their Rock had sold them into the hand of their enemies, and
the Lord God had abandoned them? -- paraphrase of Deuteronomy 32:30

"Ever-fearful of just retribution, the wicked takes alarm and flees,
oftentimes when there is no pursuer. But confident in the strength
and protection of the Lord his God, the righteous as the young lion is
fearless." -- paraphrase of Proverbs 28:1

"The West has open to it but one remedy to the present world
situation: that remedy is a return to the unadulterated Christian
Faith of the Scripture. But this is a return which necessitates
a resolute and uncompromising purging out of the spurious, the forgery,
the counterfeit, and the impostor. Curiously, few are willing to
sacrifice tradition for the sake of survival." -- RLH


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Old 04-11-2012, 12:48 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default skype?

On 11/04/12 02:39, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguson.debian.user@gmail.com> [120410
> 15:48]:
>> On 10/04/12 04:24, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>>> I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,
> ...
>> Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of
>> handing out the private key.
>
> Which precisely is my concern.
>
> The greater the diversity of transport, the better.

Agreed - I support choices (diversity).

> And, in general, the less the concern with being overheard, the
> better

Definitely not Debian related - but I'd conditionally agree. The
condition being that we recognise that a better situation is where being
overheard does not lead to judgement. A world where we are free to speak
freely is better (IMO) than a world where we're free from being
overheard. There's a difference.

> -- for such concern reduces traffic, and a large stream is
> infinitely more difficult to monitor than is a tiny stream.

>From a programming point of view I have problems with "infinite" - and
degrees of difficulty require only improved algorithms or more CPU power...

>
>> From the logistical standpoint, routine monitoring of peer-to-peer
> conversations through a multitude of channels -- even unencoded --
> is almost impossible, even with keyword searching (which results in
> innumerable false positives).

That's not my limited understanding. And that's without allowing for
optical processors and quantum computing.

Consider the amount of data generated by a person communications as
compared to the data generated by the rest of their life. The problems
tend to occur with sorting out the chaff not in capturing the data. And
it's only error correction of a fine scale that is particularly
difficult - adjusting for deliberate muddying of data on larger subsets
of data is fairly routine.

> But if every conversation goes through the same pipeline, even
> encryption can be overcome.

Likewise that's not my, limited, understanding - it has been partially
achieved but only through poor implementation of encryption. eg. Skype's
padding.

NOTE: definitely not my field of expertise - I'd suggest Bruce Schneier
is the man to ask (rumoured to have memorised all Debian encryption
keys). There is at least one regular reader of this list who might also
have an informed opinion (but I won't name him).

>
> RLH
>
<snipped>

Interesting thoughts Russell, but... if this is to become another OT
thread (it kind of is already) it should be moved to the OT list.

Kind regards


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Old 04-11-2012, 01:04 AM
Christian
 
Default skype?

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 18:03:28 -0500, Scott Ferguson
<scott.ferguson.debian.user@gmail.com> wrote:





<snipped>



I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,


Then, sadly, Ekiga is *not* the answer for your needs as it doesn't
support encryption. (one of the reasons it's not a fit for my needs).

Kphone, Jitsi, Mumble, QuteCom, Linphone, MicroSIP, SFLPhone, and Blink
do. Note that not all are multiplatform, see one of my previous posts to
this thread for a list of those that are ported to the three main PC
platforms.

Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of handing
out the private key.


The term "handing out" makes me curious. Who exactly are they handing it
out to?


Personally I am presented with a few requirements from my employer to be
able to use Linux as my work OS. One is MS Word the other is Skype, with
or without key handed out.




<snipped>


Kind regards




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//Christian


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Old 04-11-2012, 04:15 AM
daniel jimenez
 
Default skype?

It is shameful that, so many years after the digital revolution, proprietary formats such as those championed by microsoft are *mandated* by the industry, educational institutions and (in mexico at least) government departments. In fact, I recently had problems with my yearly tax declaration due to it only supporting and running on some version of Internet Explorer.


Hopefully, we can all make that change.
In the case of skype, I understand that their contributions to VoIP have been pioneering and extremely successful as a tool for individuals and the enterprise community alike. However, every company that doesn't support standardization is extremely short sighted and detrimental to the healthy growth of the field they represent.


Anyway, sorry for the hijack..

Daniel
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Christian <cdysthe@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 18:03:28 -0500, Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguson.debian.user@gmail.com> wrote:









<snipped>






I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,




Then, sadly, Ekiga is *not* the answer for your needs as it doesn't

support encryption. (one of the reasons it's not a fit for my needs).



Kphone, Jitsi, Mumble, QuteCom, Linphone, MicroSIP, SFLPhone, and Blink

do. Note that not all are multiplatform, see one of my previous posts to

this thread for a list of those that are ported to the three main PC

platforms.



Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of handing

out the private key.




The term "handing out" makes me curious. Who exactly are they handing it out to?



Personally I am presented with a few requirements from my employer to be able to use Linux as my work OS. One is MS Word the other is Skype, with or without key handed out.








<snipped>





Kind regards








--

//Christian





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Old 04-11-2012, 04:31 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default skype?

On 11/04/12 11:04, Christian wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 18:03:28 -0500, Scott Ferguson
> <scott.ferguson.debian.user@gmail.com> wrote:
>

<snipped>

>>
>> Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of handing
>> out the private key.
>
> The term "handing out" makes me curious. Who exactly are they handing it
> out to?

Law enforcement - duly warranted I "assume".
Italian law enforcement that I'm aware of.

>
> Personally I am presented with a few requirements from my employer to be
> able to use Linux as my work OS.

Glad you have a good employer - sound like a company worth working for.
The only employer I had who allowed GNU/Linux was Telstra - and they had
a long list of build and deployment rules, most of which were default in
Debian.

> One is MS Word the other is Skype, with
> or without key handed out.

I have similar requirements from some clients - the "need" for MS Office
has always been met by OpenOffice.org, with the exception of one client
(who prefers I use their own VOIP product) - Skype's security satisfies
the requirements of clients that do specify a VOIP product. I'm not
currently concerned about government or law enforcement monitoring my
communications, but I take heed of Chile's experience with Alan Bond.

Business espionage would be a greater concern to me than Big Brother -
not that I have any involvement in NBN tenders, and Defence related
business usually has ONA and DSD guidelines about means of communication
(which don't affect me, currently and I'm not in a position to comment on).

Kind regards

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