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Old 12-17-2010, 06:50 PM
Gordon Messmer
 
Default Moving from Fedora -- Advice??

On 12/17/2010 10:11 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
>FC14 *seems* to
> be a bit more stable, though right now, I'm fighting to try to get
> ssh-agent working correctly on it - just did a full update, and now it
> starts it on login... but doesn't stop it on logout, and doesn't pass the
> environment variables.

Off topic, but:
You're probably trying too hard. ssh-agent works correctly on a clean
install of Fedora and has for many releases. You don't need to
configure anything.
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:32 PM
 
Default Moving from Fedora -- Advice??

Gordon Messmer wrote:
> On 12/17/2010 10:11 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
>>FC14 *seems* to
>> be a bit more stable, though right now, I'm fighting to try to get
>> ssh-agent working correctly on it - just did a full update, and now it
>> starts it on login... but doesn't stop it on logout, and doesn't pass
>> the environment variables.
>
> Off topic, but:
> You're probably trying too hard. ssh-agent works correctly on a clean
> install of Fedora and has for many releases. You don't need to
> configure anything.

Not with PIV-II cards....

mark

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Old 12-17-2010, 11:39 PM
"David G. Mackay"
 
Default Moving from Fedora -- Advice??

On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 18:38 +0100, David Sommerseth wrote:
> On 17/12/10 18:24, Scott Robbins wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 01:11:49AM +0800, Guenther Boelter wrote:
> >> On 12/18/2010 01:04 AM, Beartooth wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm running Fedora14 on all machines, including my wife's -- and
> >>> I'm the nearest (distant) thing there is to tech support.
> >>
> >> What's wrong with Fedora in that case, what do you think is the benefit
> >> of using CentOS instead?
> >
> > Fedora will break things. They're still, in many ways, figuring out
> > what they are, but they do serve as a test bed, or perhaps development
> > platform, for various things that aren't ready for prime time.
>
> I so often hear that Fedora breaks things. I've been running F-11 and
> F-12 on a server as KVM host, without issues. I've been using F8-F13 on
> several computers (3 laptops and a workstation), and I can't really say
> it has broken anything on my setups. It might be I'm not using it
> "right" to experience such breakage. Use cases are everything from
> "mail, surf and OO.org" to development tasks

Really? I've been running KVM on Fedora for quite a few releases.
NetworkManager has been something of a nightmare on several releases
when dealing with VMs. Especially if you were doing bridging. Fedora
has a slightly schizophrenic group of publicists. There are folks that
insist that they are stable, and there are folks that tell you that they
are the leading edge. If you scan the Fedora devel lists, it's not hard
to find discussions between developers noting that they'll have to force
users to use a particular new feature so that it will get properly
tested (i.e. it's so freaking buggy that no one would use it unless
forced to use it). That said, I use Fedora for my development systems,
but CentOS for my production systems.

> In fact, for me, Fedora has been way more stable and solid than the time
> I was running Ubuntu (from Gibson to Ibix), where I got worried every
> time there were new updates available.
>
> But rightfully enough, I've never tried CentOS on the desktop. Maybe
> CentOS 6 will be a good choice for that.

Depends on what you want for your desktop. There are a lot of things,
like video, etc., that CentOS just lags too far behind.

Dave


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Old 12-21-2010, 05:45 PM
Gordon Messmer
 
Default Moving from Fedora -- Advice??

On 12/17/2010 12:32 PM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
>
> Not with PIV-II cards....

Why? Do they use a non-standard SSH agent?
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:49 PM
 
Default Moving from Fedora -- Advice??

Gordon Messmer wrote:
> On 12/17/2010 12:32 PM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
>>
>> Not with PIV-II cards....
>
> Why? Do they use a non-standard SSH agent?

pkcs11. opensc. NOT COOLKEY. Trying to use a current version of openssh,
opensc, and openct that my manager built it 100% repeatably tries to use
coolkey, and as you've seen from earlier posts, pops up the "phone home"
window, then, when you make that go away, it brings up the Smart Card
Manager window... WITH the FORMAT button enabled!

Oy. Having uninstalled coolkey, and its dependency esc, made all that go
away, once I'd done some minor configuration.

mark

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Old 12-21-2010, 07:13 PM
Beartooth
 
Default Moving from Fedora -- Advice??

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 01:11:49 +0800, Guenther Boelter wrote:

> On 12/18/2010 01:04 AM, Beartooth wrote:
>>
>> I'm running Fedora14 on all machines, including my wife's -- and
>> I'm the nearest (distant) thing there is to tech support.
>
> What's wrong with Fedora in that case, what do you think is the benefit
> of using CentOS instead?

Fair question, for which thanks.

First off, Les Mikesell's point below. I keep fairly near
current, installing new Fedora releases a week to a month after they come
out, chiefly because that's when I have the best chance that some
Friendly Alpha Plus Technoid (FAPT) will notice any Very Dumb Question
(VDQ) of mine. All that takes a lot of time and mental effort -- which
she, being more outdoor oriented (as I used to be), has no interest in.
I'm getting almighty tired of it myself, despite my interest.

What's more, as a linguist and erstwhile mathematician, and one
who's been following lists, LUGs, etc., etc., for a dozen years, I've
picked up enough of the argot to ask questions in relatively brief and
not totally unfamiliar ways -- enough so that most do usually get read.
That's another interest she leaves to me.

Also, a side-effect of using the argot is that many or most of
those who reply overestimate my actual savvy -- as is true of maybe half
the ten posts in this thread so far. (The ratio is substantially more
favorable here than in many of my electronic hang-outs, I'm glad to say.)
Then I have to ask for elucidations. Nothing wrong with that, while I
last, but still more reason to find her something that she'll have far
less occasion to ask about.

For the likes of me, whether Fedora "breaks things" is a very
oversimplified question. Maybe, despite my greater interest and
experience (than my wife's, at least), *I'm* breaking most of them --
certainly some. (I do tinker, trying to emulate an amorous porcupine the
while ...)

I'll stop here for now, just because this is getting long.

--
Beartooth Staffwright, Neo-Redneck Not Quite Clueless Power User
I have precious (very precious!) little idea where up is.


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Old 12-22-2010, 04:52 AM
Rajagopal Swaminathan
 
Default Moving from Fedora -- Advice??

Greetings

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Beartooth <beartooth@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> * * * *I'm running Fedora14 on all machines, including my wife's -- and
> I'm the nearest (distant) thing there is to tech support.
>

I totally can identify the horror </me nods head>

>
> * * * *She's far more likely to outlive me than I her; so I want to
> install something requiring a lot less maintenance on her machine, so
> that she'll have it and be used to it, years ahead of need.
>
> * * * *I'm thinking CentOS 6, whenever it's ready, is probably my best
> choice. Any thoughts? (And yes, I do mean what my .sig says.)
>

Ah! That's connoisseur's for the *real* classes!

That is what Centos is for. Long Live Centos6!

And Happy Birthday Centos 6 in Advance

Regards,

Rajagopal
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Old 12-22-2010, 05:37 PM
Gordon Messmer
 
Default Moving from Fedora -- Advice??

On 12/21/2010 10:49 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
> Gordon Messmer wrote:
>> On 12/17/2010 12:32 PM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
>>>
>>> Not with PIV-II cards....
>>
>> Why? Do they use a non-standard SSH agent?
>
> pkcs11. opensc. NOT COOLKEY.

I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything. You said that
you're having trouble getting ssh-agent to close on logout. I replied
that you're probably trying too hard. Fedora's desktops automatically
have an ssh-agent available when you log in via gdm. In the past, it
was OpenSSH's ssh-agent. In more recent versions, gnome has its own
authentication agent, which is used.

So I'll repeat myself: if you are seeing ssh-agent continue after you
log out, you're probably trying too hard. Setting the agent up and
tearing it down on logout are done for you right out of the box, and
have been for years. Log in to a new user account on a fresh install
sometime. Open a terminal and type "set | grep SSH_AUTH_SOCK". See
that environment variable? The agent is running.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:39 PM
 
Default Moving from Fedora -- Advice??

Gordon Messmer wrote:
> On 12/21/2010 10:49 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
>> Gordon Messmer wrote:
>>> On 12/17/2010 12:32 PM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Not with PIV-II cards....
>>>
>>> Why? Do they use a non-standard SSH agent?
>>
>> pkcs11. opensc. NOT COOLKEY.
>
> I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything. You said that
> you're having trouble getting ssh-agent to close on logout. I replied
> that you're probably trying too hard. Fedora's desktops automatically
> have an ssh-agent available when you log in via gdm. In the past, it
> was OpenSSH's ssh-agent. In more recent versions, gnome has its own
> authentication agent, which is used.

Right, which AFAIK, doesn't work with the new US federal PIV-II cards.
Certainly, I can't add the card when it's inserted in the reader with just
that.
>
> So I'll repeat myself: if you are seeing ssh-agent continue after you
> log out, you're probably trying too hard. Setting the agent up and
> tearing it down on logout are done for you right out of the box, and
> have been for years. Log in to a new user account on a fresh install
> sometime. Open a terminal and type "set | grep SSH_AUTH_SOCK". See
> that environment variable? The agent is running.

I'll check his box again, when I get a chance. But as I said, it wasn't
willing to accept the card with ssh-add -s pkcs11, or ssh-add -s
opensc-pkcs11.so

mark

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Old 12-23-2010, 03:58 AM
Paul Johnson
 
Default Moving from Fedora -- Advice??

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Beartooth <beartooth@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> * * * *She's far more likely to outlive me than I her; so I want to
> install something requiring a lot less maintenance on her machine, so
> that she'll have it and be used to it, years ahead of need.
>
> * * * *I'm thinking CentOS 6, whenever it's ready, is probably my best
> choice. Any thoughts? (And yes, I do mean what my .sig says.)
>

Hello, Beartooth.

I have given this a lot of thought over the last few months. You
certainly can't leave her on Fedora. That turns over too fast.

On a server or in a public lab, I run Centos or RHEL.

This is a Centos list, and I don't want to inspire a big distro flame
war, but here's an opinion. If you are serious that you may die and
leave your wife with an OS she can't manage, you might think about
installing the LTS version of Ubuntu. The Ubuntu email list folks are
more helpful to non-experts. The distro team is more energetic about
making device drivers work, even if you happen to own the "wrong"
hardware (proprietary drivers for Nvidia video, MP3 encoding, etc).
They are somewhat like Macintosh in attitude. "If we can't package it
up for you to click on, it is not worth doing." That's not the way
experts need it, but for somebody who is just using the system, it may
be about right.

On the other hand, if I have a really serious problem, something wrong
in the kernel, I'd much rather seek help in the Fedora list. There
are more true experts floating about in there.

I suppose that once you install the OS, the trouble due to automatic
updates from either Ubuntu LTS or Centos/RedHat will be about the
same. The trouble will come when she either has to get a new computer
or make a major distribution update, eg from Centos 5.5 to Centos 6.0.

If she needs to find Linux help, my *guess* is that she will be more
likely to find a teenager who has used Ubuntu than the others.

She'd have the same trouble with Windows, the only difference there is
that it is easier to find/hire geeks to help on a Windows system.

pj
--
Paul E. Johnson
Professor, Political Science
1541 Lilac Lane, Room 504
University of Kansas
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