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Old 12-13-2010, 05:17 PM
Lamar Owen
 
Default OT: programming language for morons (newbie friendly language in Open Source world)

On Monday, December 13, 2010 12:54:35 pm Benjamin Franz wrote:
> But seriously, there are a fair number of (mostly older) languages that
> are fairly picky about whitespace. I still remember writing FORTRAN.

We still have one application running on a VAXStation 4000 being maintained in FORTRAN (controlls a 7,000 pound astronomical photographic plate 'scanner' (aka a microdensitometer) using an IEEE488 connected laser position interferometer servo system and a SCSI-connected CAMAC crate for general purpose I/O and the A to D pixel photometer readout). The FCC even did web cgi programs in FORTRAN. And there are a number of scientific packages still using FORTRAN that are still being developed and maintained. It is far from a dead language, and is still being taught as a major scientific language. FORTRAN and LABview are rather common in academia, as is Matlab.

We're looking at porting the VS4000's FORTRAN code to C on CentOS, but getting the CAMAC Linux drivers (uses the SCSI generic interface) to work has been a challenge.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:03 PM
Lamar Owen
 
Default OT: programming language for morons (newbie friendly language in Open Source world)

On Monday, December 13, 2010 03:15:48 pm Nick wrote:
> This is a bit like saying "I have 12 years experience of hunting but I too
> myopic to aim a pistol," then asking "which firearm should I carry?"

To an extent; I read it more along the lines of 'I have 12 years experience hunting with a scoped rifle but am too nearsighted to aim a regular pistol with iron sights, what sort of handgun would you recommend' to which I would answer 'Remington XP-100 in .223 Remington, .308 Winchester, or .35 Remington, depending on the size game hunted, or Thompson-Center Contender, which should be chambered in something like .223 Remington for small game, .30-30 or .243 Winchester for medium game, and .45-70 for larger game. Recoil in the larger calibers will be significant. Scopes for these handguns are pretty much required, and range is comparable to a short carbine in the same caliber.'

In other words, the choice of a new programming language has something to do with what you're going to do with it. And much like trying to use a T/C Contender in .45-70 Government as a first hunting handgun, there are some languages that aren't really suitable for a first language. You need to start with something a little easier to handle, like a Ruger Blackhawk or an S&W L- or N-frame in .357 Maximum; you can load it with .38 S&W Special for a fairly easy to shoot handgun, and graduate up through .357 S&W Magnum and the hard-hitting .357 Remington Maximum; you could even get something in .357 SuperMag..... And scopes are available for that frame.....

If you've done shell scripting, pick something that can build from that; I mentioned Python, but Perl or Ruby would be just a good, really. The key point is to build on something with some familiarity, and while strongly-typed languages have their uses and strengths, 'scripting' languages are possibly going to be an easier learn.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:59 PM
"John R. Dennison"
 
Default OT: programming language for morons (newbie friendly language in Open Source world)

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 05:30:09PM -0500, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
> Patrick Lists wrote:
> > Have a look at Lua (www.lua.org). Imo it's quite readable and less
> <snip>
> Don't. I have literally never heard of it before, and I at least have
> heard of everything else folks have mentioned. Learn something that
> there's a *large* base of folks who know enough to help you.

Just because *you* haven't come across it before doesn't mean
that the language hasn't gained significant traction in recent
years as an embedded language. It's in use in *many* commercial
and FOSS games, for instance; along with being used as an
internal scripting language for many other types of
applications. It can, of course, also be used as a standalone
scripting / tool language.

I would argue that there is indeed a large support audience
available, even if that audience is not here.




John

--
"Which is more believable: In the beginning there was God, who created the
universe, or in the beginning there was nothing, which exploded"

-- <nog>
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Old 12-14-2010, 01:33 AM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default OT: programming language for morons (newbie friendly language in Open Source world)

On Monday 13 December 2010 22:41:47 Warren Young wrote:
> Here are the languages I found in the main CentOS 5 package repository:
[snip]
> - assembly: if the OP thought Java too tough, he ain't seen nothin' yet
[snip]
> - C and C++: see assembly (No flames, please. I write C++ most
> every day, and have written substantial amounts of pure C.)
[snip]

You might want to take a very good look at:

http://sith.ipb.ac.rs/ssh/ProgrammerEvolution.pdf

(sorry, couldn't resist... )

Best, :-)
Marko


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Old 12-14-2010, 09:11 AM
John Doe
 
Default OT: programming language for morons (newbie friendly language in Open Source world)

From: Sven Aluoor <aluoor@gmail.com>

> I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
> but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
> shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
> because it is too complicated for my limited brainpower.
> What programming language should I learn?
> A friend said that C-Sharp (Mono) is very simple. Is this true?

Depends on what you want to develop (web/system/...).
But if you want "simple": php, python, ruby, perl... logo... ;D
Free books:
http://www.mindview.net/Books/
http://greenteapress.com/

JD



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Old 12-15-2010, 02:47 AM
 
Default OT: programming language for morons (newbie friendly language in Open Source world)

cornel panceac wrote:
> my first language was pascal. if i'd had the opportunity, i'd start with c.
> herbert schildt's teach yourself c was great for me.

I think C is an excellent place to begin. But try K & R
(ISBN-10 0131103628) which is the classic introduction.

Schildt is reviled in the church of C. See
http://accu.org/index.php?module=bookreviews&func=search&rid=608
where he is roundly rebuked. He doesn't do well in any
of the numerous reviews of his books on the ACCU site.

He's even got an entry in the comp.lang.c FAQ:
Q: I need a random number generator.
A: Count errors in Herbert Schildt's C books. No one has detected any
consistent pattern.

--
Charles Polisher
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:53 PM
Lamar Owen
 
Default OT: programming language for morons (newbie friendly language in Open Source world)

On Monday, December 13, 2010 07:11:40 pm R P Herrold wrote:
> One could do ** much worse ** than Lua (the rantings of the
> MSFT fanboi here for the patent encumbered kit, not shipped on
> CentOS, such as C# come to mind)

Or Intercal, although it's not in the repos.

Which reminds me of my favorite funny line in an RPM description, on Fedora now:
[root@localhost ~]# rpm -qi moserial
Name : moserial Relocations: (not relocatable)
[snip]

Description :
Moserial is a clean, friendly gtk-based serial terminal for the gnome
desktop. It is written in Vala for extra goodness.

:-O (!!??!?!?!?) And while moserial (and cutecom) have their definite uses (I have used both), to have the language it's written in as part of the description beggars the imagination....
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