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Old 12-09-2010, 10:00 AM
Christopher Chan
 
Default Asymmetric connections

On Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:11 PM, Lamar Owen wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 07, 2010 10:37:02 pm Christopher Chan wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 08, 2010 03:11 AM, Ben McGinnes wrote:
>>> The even more horrendous problem, which is so pervasive it affects
>>> everyone, is the insistence on asymmetric connections. Even when
>>> Australia does get this fabled fibre-to-the-home, it still won't be
>>> symmetric. *sigh*
>>>
>>
>> Fibre connections that are not symmetric...sure going out of the way that.
>
> Not really, once you realize that more optical power is required for greater bandwidths at the same distance. It is rather safer and less expensive at the CPE to have a broad receiver and a narrow transmitter. Fiber still obeys power density rules. Not to mention that passive splitting of the downstream and driving with high power lasers couple with either Raman or Erbium-doped fiber amplifiers saves money for the carrier.
>
> And there is of course single fiber RX/TX muxing, where the upstream is DWDM on a 1550nm window wave at a low power, and the downstream is a high power 1310nm single wave, or CWDM even. Running a dedicated fiber pair to each customer is expensive; CATV fiber supertrunk digital systems are well-tested at high (>+30dBm optical) powers and are much less expensive for the carrier, meaning they are much less expensive for the subscriber, too. Even if they *are* oversubscribed.
>
> While it is easy to believe in an 'asymmetric/no servers/ I got all the content/ mwahahaha!' conspiracy, simple economics and physics explain most of the reasons that oversubscribed high bandwidth downstream coupled with less oversubscribed low bandwidth upstream is the norm for consumer links. Even fiber.
>
> Or would you prefer paying kilobucks per month for a tariffed OC3/12/48 or Gigabit provisioned Metro E? (that's all I can get, and it does cost kilobucks to get it).

Is this residential? One can get 1G symmetric fibre from HKBN for less
than 30USD/mnth if you live in a block of apartments. See below. (Please
note troll hat on my head)

----------------------
FibreHome 1000 Basic Plan
- installation fee waiver

‧ Basic monthly fee $199
‧ Contract duration 24 months
‧ Maximum bandwidth (local access) 1000Mbps Upload/Download
‧ Maximum bandwidth (overseas access) 20Mbps Upload/Download
‧ Installation fee $0
Basic Gifts
4 UA Movie Vouchers (Apply to online registration only)
NOD32 Anti-virus software(Worth: $238)(Apply to online registration only)
Successfully register to this plan and install FibreHome1000 Broadband
Service on or before December 31, you will be entitled to receive the
gifts for free.
----------------------

As for my current location, I guess I can get the same if I am willing
to pay for the cable laying...

*takes off troll hat*
ps: Thanks for the info on long distance fibre tech.
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:59 PM
Lamar Owen
 
Default Asymmetric connections

On Thursday, December 09, 2010 06:00:58 am Christopher Chan wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:11 PM, Lamar Owen wrote:
> > Or would you prefer paying kilobucks per month for a tariffed OC3/12/48 or Gigabit provisioned Metro E? (that's all I can get, and it does cost kilobucks to get it).
>
> Is this residential?

No. This is committed full rate non-oversubscribed dedicated symmetric bandwidth guaranteed to the provider's upstream handoff at the AS border (and the provider has multiple 10G links). I'm running right now on a 1000Base-LX/LH transport from a Cisco 12008 router to the ISP, where I've purchased X Mb/s of connectivity across their SONET backbone to their core, and through their core to their upstream(s). Up until April I had a T1 over fiber for backup and a protected OC-3; I cut my costs by a factor of ten going Metro-E, thanks to the tariff the OC-3 was under.

Also, I'm about 19 kilofeet by fiber from the remote office/SLIC, and about 20 miles from the CO in the nearest town; while I could have lit a ZX link if I had needed to, it was nice that I was within 10km of the EoSONET bridge at the remote office.

Yeah, the boonies. I'm the only fiber customer this far out on this system; we have six fibers, two of which are currently lit. We have 75 strand-miles of fiber on-campus, some of which I'm lighting with 1550nm waves due to high attenuation (old fiber). And I'm using surplus CATV supertrunk equipment to do it; fun stuff to work with.
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:12 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Asymmetric connections

On Thursday 09 December 2010 11:00:58 Christopher Chan wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:11 PM, Lamar Owen wrote:
> > Or would you prefer paying kilobucks per month for a tariffed OC3/12/48
> > or Gigabit provisioned Metro E? (that's all I can get, and it does cost
> > kilobucks to get it).
>
> Is this residential? One can get 1G symmetric fibre from HKBN for less
> than 30USD/mnth if you live in a block of apartments. See below. (Please
> note troll hat on my head)
>
> ----------------------
> FibreHome 1000 Basic Plan
> - installation fee waiver
>
> ‧ Basic monthly fee $199
> ‧ Contract duration 24 months
> ‧ Maximum bandwidth (local access) 1000Mbps Upload/Download
> ‧ Maximum bandwidth (overseas access) 20Mbps Upload/Download
> ‧ Installation fee $0
[snip]

Sorry, I fail to understand how is this a 1G link? It clearly says that you
have only 20Mbps uplink to the rest of the world (I guess that's what
"overseas" mean).

Granted, the cabling may be able to withstand a 1000Mbps throughput (for
whatever "local" network may be). But it's not the same thing as having a real
1G uplink, which would be much more expensive. Especially if it is symmetric.

Or have I misunderstood something here?

Btw, what part of the world are you in, geographically? That would probably
clear up my understanding of "overseas" and "local" accesses... :-)

Best, :-)
Marko





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Old 12-09-2010, 10:56 PM
Christopher Chan
 
Default Asymmetric connections

On Friday, December 10, 2010 03:12 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> On Thursday 09 December 2010 11:00:58 Christopher Chan wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:11 PM, Lamar Owen wrote:
>>> Or would you prefer paying kilobucks per month for a tariffed OC3/12/48
>>> or Gigabit provisioned Metro E? (that's all I can get, and it does cost
>>> kilobucks to get it).
>>
>> Is this residential? One can get 1G symmetric fibre from HKBN for less
>> than 30USD/mnth if you live in a block of apartments. See below. (Please
>> note troll hat on my head)
>>
>> ----------------------
>> FibreHome 1000 Basic Plan
>> - installation fee waiver
>>
>> ‧ Basic monthly fee $199
>> ‧ Contract duration 24 months
>> ‧ Maximum bandwidth (local access) 1000Mbps Upload/Download
>> ‧ Maximum bandwidth (overseas access) 20Mbps Upload/Download
>> ‧ Installation fee $0
> [snip]
>
> Sorry, I fail to understand how is this a 1G link? It clearly says that you
> have only 20Mbps uplink to the rest of the world (I guess that's what
> "overseas" mean).

Residential link...we don't care that much about overseas bandwidth, not
unless we are into the DOSing business :-p


>
> Granted, the cabling may be able to withstand a 1000Mbps throughput (for
> whatever "local" network may be). But it's not the same thing as having a real
> 1G uplink, which would be much more expensive. Especially if it is symmetric.
>
> Or have I misunderstood something here?

One gets 1G to hosts local to Hong Kong. Like the local Centos mirrors.


>
> Btw, what part of the world are you in, geographically? That would probably
> clear up my understanding of "overseas" and "local" accesses... :-)


Hong Kong.

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Old 12-09-2010, 11:40 PM
Christopher Chan
 
Default Asymmetric connections

On Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:59 PM, Lamar Owen wrote:
> On Thursday, December 09, 2010 06:00:58 am Christopher Chan wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:11 PM, Lamar Owen wrote:
>>> Or would you prefer paying kilobucks per month for a tariffed OC3/12/48 or Gigabit provisioned Metro E? (that's all I can get, and it does cost kilobucks to get it).
>>
>> Is this residential?
>
> No. This is committed full rate non-oversubscribed dedicated symmetric bandwidth guaranteed to the provider's upstream handoff at the AS border (and the provider has multiple 10G links). I'm running right now on a 1000Base-LX/LH transport from a Cisco 12008 router to the ISP, where I've purchased X Mb/s of connectivity across their SONET backbone to their core, and through their core to their upstream(s). Up until April I had a T1 over fiber for backup and a protected OC-3; I cut my costs by a factor of ten going Metro-E, thanks to the tariff the OC-3 was under.
>
> Also, I'm about 19 kilofeet by fiber from the remote office/SLIC, and about 20 miles from the CO in the nearest town; while I could have lit a ZX link if I had needed to, it was nice that I was within 10km of the EoSONET bridge at the remote office.
>
> Yeah, the boonies. I'm the only fiber customer this far out on this system; we have six fibers, two of which are currently lit. We have 75 strand-miles of fiber on-campus, some of which I'm lighting with 1550nm waves due to high attenuation (old fiber). And I'm using surplus CATV supertrunk equipment to do it; fun stuff to work with.

Fiber over here for the school, 50MB up/down at around 650USD/mnth with
a /28 subnet. Probably also the only fiber customer way up this hill the
school is situated on but we have nothing laid out in the contract
regarding actual bandwidth overseas. Not that a primary/grade school
needs anything substantial...
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