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Old 12-08-2010, 02:50 PM
Giles Coochey
 
Default Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)

I agree!!!



On 08/12/2010 16:46, Jerry Franz wrote:

On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote:

Honestly, I had no one in mind.
I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing
list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post,
don't trim, and still use aol.

It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many
technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other
electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is really just
another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change
well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and
far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either
convention actually causes.

I still remember the rage sparked on the Usenet by some old timers when
people started using JPEG and MIME rather than GIF and uuencoding. Oh,
the horror of it.

Oh, BTW: vim over emacs.

;-)




--
Best Regards,

Giles Coochey
NetSecSpec Ltd
NL T-Systems Mobile: +31 681 265 086
NL Mobile: +31 626 508 131
Gib Mobile: +350 5401 6693
Email/MSN/Live Messenger: giles@coochey.net
Skype: gilescoochey



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Old 12-08-2010, 02:57 PM
Adam Tauno Williams
 
Default Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)

On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 07:46 -0800, Jerry Franz wrote:
> On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote:
> > Honestly, I had no one in mind.
> > I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing
> > list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post,
> > don't trim, and still use aol.
> It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many
> technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other
> electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is really just
> another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change
> well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and
> far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either
> convention actually causes.

Ok, well then you call be religiously intolerant. I care; for what I
sincerely believe to be very *practical* reasons. Top-Post messages are
often quite confusing; they often respond to one point in a longer
message - and you don't have any idea which one. And the don't
encourage trimming which makes reading a message resulting from a thread
really bad.

I use e-mail, especially archives, to research problems and issues - so
readability matters.

Trust me [which of course you won't seeing as you already dismissed my
point of view] but it *REALLY MATTERS* when going back and reading
e-mail how the poster(s) managed the message's contents.


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Old 12-08-2010, 03:13 PM
 
Default Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)

Jerry Franz wrote:
> On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote:
>> Honestly, I had no one in mind.
>> I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing
>> list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post,
>> don't trim, and still use aol.
>
> It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many
> technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other

The damn thing is a conversation. Top posting is talking over everyone else.

> electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is really just
> another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change
> well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and
> far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either
> convention actually causes.

So, we should put up with rudeness and obnoxious behavior? See my post
about when AOHell got on the 'Net.
>
> I still remember the rage sparked on the Usenet by some old timers when
> people started using JPEG and MIME rather than GIF and uuencoding. Oh,
> the horror of it.

Don't remember lots of yelling.
>
> Oh, BTW: vim over emacs.

alt.religion.editors <g>

mark

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Old 12-08-2010, 03:43 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)

On 12/8/2010 9:46 AM, Jerry Franz wrote:
> On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote:
>> Honestly, I had no one in mind.
>> I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing
>> list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post,
>> don't trim, and still use aol.
>
> It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many
> technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other
> electronic communications.

The distinction is kind of blurring in these days of huge multi-national
companies, but business and personal email tends to have quick responses
where you normally remember the previous content and don't need it at
all for context but might want the whole thread for an audit trail.

By contrast, mail list mail messages are likely to be seen by many
people who did not see the previous exchange(s) or care enough about
them to remember. So they need the context quoted correctly to
understand the reply. Also, they are likely to be using a search to find
archived messages and leaving content that is unrelated to the current
reply screws up the ability to find anything.

> The rage we see here over it is really just
> another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change
> well.

No, there are very practical reasons and the point is to educate others
with obvious inexperience as to how to make their input better for
others which after all, should be the main reason for typing it in the
first place.

> In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and
> far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either
> convention actually causes.

That's partly true - if someone rudely ignores time-proven conventions
you can politely overlook it - for a while...

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:33 PM
 
Default Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)

Lamar Owen wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:13:05 am m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
<snip>
>> > Oh, BTW: vim over emacs.
>
Actually, yep. I do know how to exit from emacs (the windowing o/s
masquerading as a text editor...).

>> alt.religion.editors <g>
>
> What about alt.emacs.die.die.die or alt.vi.die.die.die? I seem to
> remember those passing my way long ago when I pulled nearly a full feed
> with C-News on some old unix kit. I don't think they lasted long....and I
> don't have an easily accessible full-alt-tree-enabled NNTP server at hand
> to look, nor do I have full archives of my old 3B1 anymore.....

Ok... I can see, this evening, if I can subscribe to one.

mark, who pays Newsguy for usenet feed

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