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Old 12-08-2010, 02:46 PM
Jerry Franz
 
Default Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)

On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote:
> Honestly, I had no one in mind.
> I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing
> list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post,
> don't trim, and still use aol.

It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many
technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other
electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is really just
another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change
well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and
far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either
convention actually causes.

I still remember the rage sparked on the Usenet by some old timers when
people started using JPEG and MIME rather than GIF and uuencoding. Oh,
the horror of it.

Oh, BTW: vim over emacs.

;-)

--
Benjamin Franz

Asperger's are wonderful people but they can be very difficult to get
along with.
The expression "would argue with a signpost" comes to mind."
- John Wilkins, blog comment, May 24 2006
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:21 PM
"Jason Pyeron"
 
Default Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)

Responses inline.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: centos-bounces@centos.org
> [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of m.roth@5-cent.us
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:13
> To: CentOS mailing list
> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly
> depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)
>
> Jerry Franz wrote:
> > On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote:
> >> Honestly, I had no one in mind.
> >> I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a
> >> mailing list for something else. I hadn't realized how
> most people
> >> top post, don't trim, and still use aol.
> >
> > It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention
> used on many
> > technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or
> > other
>
> The damn thing is a conversation. Top posting is talking over
> everyone else.

I had a customer blast me about inlined responses, it drove me bonkers. I was
responding to 15 individual questions.

>
> > electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is
> really just
> > another technical 'religious war' by people who don't
> tolerate change
> > well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way
> > and far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either
> > convention actually causes.
>
> So, we should put up with rudeness and obnoxious behavior?

The above mention customer continued to indicate how unprofessional I was by not
top posting my reply. The reason was there was no instruction to the reader that
they should review the WHOLE email for new information. So now I can demonstrate
good business etiquite and good netiquite. See first line of email.

P.S. I use outlook. I set it to Plain Text, and I move my cursor to where I want
to type.

Thanks for hearing my rants too.

--
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- -
- Jason Pyeron PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
- Principal Consultant 10 West 24th Street #100 -
- +1 (443) 269-1555 x333 Baltimore, Maryland 21218 -
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:55 PM
"Simon Billis"
 
Default Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)

> -----Original Message-----
> Responses inline.
>
> > Jerry Franz wrote:
> > > On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote:
> > >> Honestly, I had no one in mind.
> > >> I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a
> > >> mailing list for something else. I hadn't realized how
> > most people
> > >> top post, don't trim, and still use aol.
> > >
> > > It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention
> > used on many
> > > technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or
> > > other
> >
> > The damn thing is a conversation. Top posting is talking over
> > everyone else.
>
> I had a customer blast me about inlined responses, it drove me bonkers.
> I was
> responding to 15 individual questions.
>

I think that the missed point here is "obey the rules of the list" (I'm
ignoring customers who find it hard to read ;-) ). If the rules state bottom
posting only then that's it, no arguments. If you don't like the rules don't
post/join etc.


> >
> > > electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is
> > really just
> > > another technical 'religious war' by people who don't
> > tolerate change
> > > well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way
> > > and far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either
> > > convention actually causes.
> >
> > So, we should put up with rudeness and obnoxious behavior?
>

I think that this http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html should be
read in conjunction with the list rules. This helps to explain why some
questions elicit things that might be considered rude.

On other lists that I subscribe to they also take a dim view of top posting
- specifically for the reasons of readability, i.e. top posting makes it
difficult to pick up a thread mid conversation.

Anyway, that's just my two-penneth worth...

Simon.


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Old 12-08-2010, 04:14 PM
Lamar Owen
 
Default Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)

On Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:13:05 am m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
> Top posting is talking over everyone else.

Yep, you nailed it. It's <reply mode=jerry_springer_guest> in essence. And it is the way many non-technical people prefer to communicate. As Sam Goldwyn is often quoted as saying: 'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.' This is a rather common attitude, unfortunately even in tech circles, just not as often as in more non-tech circles.

> > Oh, BTW: vim over emacs.

> alt.religion.editors <g>

What about alt.emacs.die.die.die or alt.vi.die.die.die? I seem to remember those passing my way long ago when I pulled nearly a full feed with C-News on some old unix kit. I don't think they lasted long....and I don't have an easily accessible full-alt-tree-enabled NNTP server at hand to look, nor do I have full archives of my old 3B1 anymore.....
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