Rajagopal Swaminathan wrote:
>
> My aim is to have it all in open source model. Including the revenue
> distribution.
>

Have you looked at Ubuntu's setup? I don't think it deals with GPU's but it
might be an easier starting point than building from scratch, and if anything
outgrows your resources it can move to Amazon's ec2.

http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/private

But, I think you need to look at storage and compute facilities differently in a
cloud model. Storage needs to be HA and redundant. Computing needs to be able
to fail and be replaced.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com

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Greetings,

Thanks for the interest shown by all the responders.

On 7/18/10, Jerry Franz <jfranz@freerun.com> wrote:
> On 7/17/2010 2:11 AM, Rajagopal Swaminathan wrote:
> Everything you listed is interactive realtime or near-realtime graphics
> intensive. A cloud is not really suited to that kind of task to begin
> with.

I don't inderstand why it should be so.

How does the online gaming work? and who renders it?

> And you appear to be additionally attempting to find out if you
> could use an *existing* cloud (for example Amazon EC2) to do it -
> meaning not only are you talking about an architecture that isn't really
> suited to the problem, you are talking about putting it behind *SLOW*
> network connections to boot.

Agreed, as EC2 performance as limited by last mile speed. But Then why
should I be limited by something which is hosted not in India?

But again, I am thinkinking about the future. not present.

>
> Never-mind how *fast* a cloud is (or is not), you can't move the
> rendered bits back and forth to a desktop over a remote network
> connection at any kind of sane speed.

Again, the questions that are raised by the "sane speed" are:

1. What if it is within a campus?
2. Why should Indian universities and its students be denied such a
computing facility despite having fibre speed connectivity within
campus/area?
3. Why we (the Centos community) should hold ourselves hostage to vendor grip?
4. Why it should not be private?

I am clear that it is a technological possibility (rather, more of a
probability).

Regards,

Rajagopal
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Greetings,

Thanks for all your replies.

On 7/17/10, John R Pierce <pierce@hogranch.com> wrote:
> On 07/17/10 2:11 AM, Rajagopal Swaminathan wrote:
>> Q. If I can compute in cloud, in which cloud can I supercompute at an
>> affordable or sponsored cost?
>
> what is it you want to compute?

anything that is computable.

> what hardware resources do you want to bring to the table?

Whatever minimal cost hardware resources that are locally available.

> what is this cloud of which you speak?

The one that I want to attempt to experiment with.

>
> From all what I gather, its not that easy to use the Tesla
> GPU-as-a-processor stuff, its really only suitable for a specific class
> of problems, it won't virtualize (I think you implied in one of your vague

now *that* comes to slightly closer to my answer. But then, I am
slightly confused after seeing some of the things on the web in the
nvidia site. I will have to search again and will post the link which
confused me.


> and that helps define your requirements...

partially, yes.

> how?

Try one of cellphone transmitter simulations in terms of Radiative
Transfer (Check out University of Chicago's Prof. S. Chandrashekhar's
textbook)

>
> all the parts you left out.
>

Like?

Regards,

Rajagopal
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On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 03:01:32AM +0530, Rajagopal Swaminathan wrote:
>
> On 7/18/10, Jerry Franz <jfranz@freerun.com> wrote:
> > Everything you listed is interactive realtime or near-realtime graphics
> > intensive. A cloud is not really suited to that kind of task to begin
> > with.
>
> I don't inderstand why it should be so.
>
> How does the online gaming work? and who renders it?

This is where what you don't know is hurting you. Online gaming works
because the gamers have computers - whether PCs or game machines - with
considerable resources. It will not work to a dumb terminal or thin client.

> > And you appear to be additionally attempting to find out if you
> > could use an *existing* cloud (for example Amazon EC2) to do it -
> > meaning not only are you talking about an architecture that isn't really
> > suited to the problem, you are talking about putting it behind *SLOW*
> > network connections to boot.
>
> Agreed, as EC2 performance as limited by last mile speed. But Then why
> should I be limited by something which is hosted not in India?

It's the "last mile" to the client that matters. Where the hosts are isn't
the problem or the solution.

> > Never-mind how *fast* a cloud is (or is not), you can't move the
> > rendered bits back and forth to a desktop over a remote network
> > connection at any kind of sane speed.

> 2. Why should Indian universities and its students be denied such a
> computing facility despite having fibre speed connectivity within
> campus/area?

What is this, a social justice argument? If you want good computers for
students and house holders, go to One Laptop Per Child. If you want good
computers for university students, give them a budget to get ahold of the
parts and build their own. You can build an incredibly powerful system, for
local use, for very little money, even in rupees.

> I am clear that it is a technological possibility (rather, more of a
> probability).

So is doing this all with quantum-computing nanomachines hovering invisibly
in the air around us. However let me say with considerable confidence that
those won't run CentOS. And if they form a cloud, it will be totally unlike
any cloud we know today.

Whit
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Greetings,

Thanks Les for your reply. (I dont top-post normally, but this was an emergency)

On 7/17/10, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:

> Have you looked at Ubuntu's setup? I don't think it deals with GPU's but it
> might be an easier starting point than building from scratch, and if
> anything
> outgrows your resources it can move to Amazon's ec2.

The point is, why should we not have and use our own resources?




>
> http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/private
>
> But, I think you need to look at storage and compute facilities differently
> in a
> cloud model. Storage needs to be HA and redundant. Computing needs to be
> able
> to fail and be replaced.

1. I am not able to understand your above statement clearly. (see my
earlier replies on this thread)

2. I believe (and have experienced including and mother and father),
that nothing and/or everything is (ir)replacable.

4. I am not confused (See point 1)


Regards,

rajagopal
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Rajagopal Swaminathan wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> Thanks Les for your reply. (I dont top-post normally, but this was an emergency)

Emergency? Sorry, but your posts are leading me to think that you have
lost it.


>> Have you looked at Ubuntu's setup? I don't think it deals with GPU's but it
>> might be an easier starting point than building from scratch, and if
>> anything
>> outgrows your resources it can move to Amazon's ec2.
>
> The point is, why should we not have and use our own resources?
>

/me blinks.


>> http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/private
>>
>> But, I think you need to look at storage and compute facilities differently
>> in a
>> cloud model. Storage needs to be HA and redundant. Computing needs to be
>> able
>> to fail and be replaced.
>
> 1. I am not able to understand your above statement clearly. (see my
> earlier replies on this thread)
>
> 2. I believe (and have experienced including and mother and father),
> that nothing and/or everything is (ir)replacable.

/me stares.


>
> 4. I am not confused (See point 1)
>

Does not seem to be a matter of confusion.

You start on this list with a sharing model that sounds akin to
time-sharing investments of say a private yacht. Then you post a string
of stuff that are rather general, controversial, ill-informed but most
of all, nothing to do with Centos. Keep this up and you'll be getting
the boot. You've been 'warned' already by Karanbir.
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Am 18.07.2010 um 00:14 schrieb Rajagopal Swaminathan:

> Greetings,
>
> Thanks Les for your reply. (I dont top-post normally, but this was
> an emergency)
>
> On 7/17/10, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Have you looked at Ubuntu's setup? I don't think it deals with
>> GPU's but it
>> might be an easier starting point than building from scratch, and if
>> anything
>> outgrows your resources it can move to Amazon's ec2.
>
> The point is, why should we not have and use our own resources?
>
>


The (other) point is, I cannot really see the (technical) point of
your posting(s).
It seems non-technical.
As such, the discussion has no real place on this list, I'm afraid.

Look, it's perfectly understandable that you in India might want to do
your own thing.
But maybe you want to found your own mailing-list for discussing that?
(Please refrain from subscribing us on it, OK?)

There cannot come anything good out of this thread from here on, if
there ever could...




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On 7/17/2010 2:11 AM, Rajagopal Swaminathan wrote:

> Q. If I can compute in cloud, in which cloud can I supercompute at an
> affordable or sponsored cost?
>
> I may be a gamer, AE student, Graphic designer, renderer and so forth.
>
> Now which part of above you did not understand?
>
> sigh... how I hate my (in)ability to communicate tech to people
> inspite of having been kindly classified as a "lightweight fossil" in
> this list? Why elders are made to shout when they don't want to?
>

Everything you listed is interactive realtime or near-realtime graphics
intensive. A cloud is not really suited to that kind of task to begin
with. And you appear to be additionally attempting to find out if you
could use an *existing* cloud (for example Amazon EC2) to do it -
meaning not only are you talking about an architecture that isn't really
suited to the problem, you are talking about putting it behind *SLOW*
network connections to boot.

Never-mind how *fast* a cloud is (or is not), you can't move the
rendered bits back and forth to a desktop over a remote network
connection at any kind of sane speed.

--
Benjamin Franz
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Greetings,

On 7/16/10, Rajagopal Swaminathan <raju.rajsand@gmail.com> wrote:

<fact of an incomeless (ex-) professional who has a debt burden of about $2000>
Despite all the discussions, I have not been able spend even 1 INR
during the duration as I just don't have it.
</fact of an incomeless (ex-) professionala debt burden of about $2000>

Regards,

Rajagopal
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Rajagopal Swaminathan wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> Thanks Les for your reply. (I dont top-post normally, but this was an emergency)
>
> On 7/17/10, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Have you looked at Ubuntu's setup? I don't think it deals with GPU's but it
>> might be an easier starting point than building from scratch, and if
>> anything
>> outgrows your resources it can move to Amazon's ec2.
>
> The point is, why should we not have and use our own resources?
>
>> http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/private

If you had read the link you would have seen that it does use your own resources
- that's why it is called a private cloud. Or did you mean that CentOS should
have an equivalent to match the Ubuntu configuration? You probably could, but
it would be a lot more work.

>> But, I think you need to look at storage and compute facilities differently
>> in a
>> cloud model. Storage needs to be HA and redundant. Computing needs to be
>> able
>> to fail and be replaced.
>
> 1. I am not able to understand your above statement clearly. (see my
> earlier replies on this thread)

Distributed (super) computing normally involves techniques that break the work
up into independent units. If a node doesn't complete a unit it can be given to
a different node.


> 2. I believe (and have experienced including and mother and father),
> that nothing and/or everything is (ir)replacable.
>
> 4. I am not confused (See point 1)

Storage, on the other hand, needs to be reliable. The hadoop project is an
approach at distribution, but the interface is hard to deal with.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com


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