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Old 06-28-2010, 03:33 PM
Jim Perrin
 
Default Upgrading MySQLdb

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Whit Blauvelt <whit@transpect.com> wrote:

> Sanity here is relative. If you go to the main support channels for stuff
> like Apache or PHP or Python or Postfix or whatever, and you're having
> trouble because of some bug that they fixed literally years ago, but which
> your distro of choice doesn't yet provide packaged, you'll find no patience
> for the "I'm not going to compile your current version because then my
> distro would be impure" excuse for not upgrading to fix the problem.

Not at all. I'm not saying ZOMG YOU MUST STAY WITH 5.1.6 FOR
PHP!!!!!eleventy!1111

I'm simply saying that for most people, the configure make make
install method of doing things can and likely will result in breakage.
Either take the extra 5 minutes to make it into an rpm or stand on the
shoulders of others who already have, like the IUS repo folks, or the
epel repo folks, or the atrpms or rpmforge folks to get what you need.
My gripe is not about keeping the distro pure (that's a whole separate
issue), but simply keeping the package management overhead simple and
in general line with the practices of the distro.

In any event, we're drifting pretty far from the initial nature of
this thread, so I'd like to move that we either start a separate one
for this sort of thing, or cease altogether. I'm mostly in favor of
the latter.

--
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:48 PM
 
Default Upgrading MySQLdb

Les Mikesell wrote:
> On 6/28/2010 9:46 AM, Whit Blauvelt wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 09:49:21AM -0400, Jim Perrin wrote:
>>
<snip>
> No, the fact that your ability to 'yum update' and have the right thing
> happen is broken is a big problem regardless of who/where you ask for
> help. Even if you break it yourself, it is bad that it is broken.

As much as I would rather do something myself, at times, Les is right. If
you get a job offer somewhere else, suddenly, think of the next person who
has to maintain this.
>
<snip>
<snip>
> place. And there are three easy ways to not break it. In order of
> increasing difficulty:
>
> 1) find a yum repo with suitable RPMs already built and maintained (e.g.
> remi for mysql) and enable that repo only for the yum install and update
> commands for this particular app.
>
> 2) build from source, but be sure everything lands in /usr/local, /opt,
> or other location completely outside of any packages under rpm control.
> Track updates yourself and be sure you know how to delete all files
> that were installed. Do plenty of testing if you use developer source
> releases - because no one else may have.
<snip>
I think 2 is the way you may need to go for some things. One of our
servers here, and at a place I used to work at, needed a) a newer version
of PHP, and the other place also needed https support in php, which was
*not* in the repository. So, the source tarball got d/l from the project
site, and built in /usr/local, where, IMO, was where it should be. That
way, you can not worry about what yum's doing, because your apache
configuration will point to /usr/local, and there's be no accidents.

mark

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Old 06-28-2010, 04:24 PM
Whit Blauvelt
 
Default Upgrading MySQLdb

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 11:48:48AM -0400, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
> Les Mikesell wrote:

> >> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 09:49:21AM -0400, Jim Perrin wrote:
> >>
> > No, the fact that your ability to 'yum update' and have the right thing
> > happen is broken is a big problem regardless of who/where you ask for
> > help. Even if you break it yourself, it is bad that it is broken.
>
> As much as I would rather do something myself, at times, Les is right. If
> you get a job offer somewhere else, suddenly, think of the next person who
> has to maintain this.

That's why I always thoroughly log all stuff installed by hand, along with
extra configuration steps taken with RPM-installed items, and make sure the
log's someplace where the next person can find it. In our case we maintain
wikis for this sort of thing. It would be nice if there were a standard for
where such notes should be left on the systems themselves. Not aware that
there is one, though.

Whit
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:58 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Upgrading MySQLdb

On 6/28/2010 11:24 AM, Whit Blauvelt wrote:

>>> No, the fact that your ability to 'yum update' and have the right thing
>>> happen is broken is a big problem regardless of who/where you ask for
>>> help. Even if you break it yourself, it is bad that it is broken.
>>
>> As much as I would rather do something myself, at times, Les is right. If
>> you get a job offer somewhere else, suddenly, think of the next person who
>> has to maintain this.
>
> That's why I always thoroughly log all stuff installed by hand, along with
> extra configuration steps taken with RPM-installed items, and make sure the
> log's someplace where the next person can find it. In our case we maintain
> wikis for this sort of thing. It would be nice if there were a standard for
> where such notes should be left on the systems themselves. Not aware that
> there is one, though.

The standard place is for the rpm database to hold the list of files in
each package and to the extent possible values for local config options
to be split out as a file under /etc/sysconfig and somehow merged at
runtime. And the standard for documentation would be matching man pages
included in the package.

The piece you might be missing is avoiding replacing any rpm-managed
file with your own. Or putting your own files in places that might
conflict with subsequently installed rpms.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com


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