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Old 12-29-2009, 03:52 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default mkdir this "." directory

On Tuesday 29 December 2009 14:46:23 Anne Wilson wrote:
> On Tuesday 29 December 2009 13:59:43 Ugo Bellavance wrote:
> > On 2009-12-28 18:49, adrian kok wrote:
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I have this . folder under tmp
> >
> > It is a system-generated link to the current directory. Don't touch
> > that.
>
> Thank heavens there's one sane person reading today. Obviously no-one else
> here was ever new to Linux.

You mean new to the concept of files and directories? This is not Linux-only.
The . and .. existed even in MS-DOS back in the 80's. And they still exist,
actually. The problem is that today people working under Windows [7|Vista|XP]
never get to open a terminal anymore, and various GUI's play smart with them
and don't show the links to current and parent directories.

Best, :-)
Marko

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Old 12-29-2009, 03:54 PM
Timo Schoeler
 
Default mkdir this "." directory

Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> On Tuesday 29 December 2009 14:46:23 Anne Wilson wrote:
>> On Tuesday 29 December 2009 13:59:43 Ugo Bellavance wrote:
>>> On 2009-12-28 18:49, adrian kok wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I have this . folder under tmp
>>> It is a system-generated link to the current directory. Don't touch
>>> that.
>> Thank heavens there's one sane person reading today. Obviously no-one else
>> here was ever new to Linux.
>
> You mean new to the concept of files and directories? This is not Linux-only.
> The . and .. existed even in MS-DOS back in the 80's. And they still exist,
> actually. The problem is that today people working under Windows [7|Vista|XP]
> never get to open a terminal anymore, and various GUI's play smart with them
> and don't show the links to current and parent directories.

Sure, but: Nobody's guilty *not* to have seen this stuff in her/his
whole life just because she/he never looked at it. There may be multiple
reasons for that, one of them may be a simple 'I was born in 1996 and
never had the chance to work with CP/M'.

> Best, :-)
> Marko

Regards,

Timo
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Old 12-29-2009, 04:05 PM
Bob McConnell
 
Default mkdir this "." directory

Timo Schoeler wrote:
> Marko Vojinovic wrote:
>> On Tuesday 29 December 2009 14:46:23 Anne Wilson wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 29 December 2009 13:59:43 Ugo Bellavance wrote:
>>>> On 2009-12-28 18:49, adrian kok wrote:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> I have this . folder under tmp
>>>> It is a system-generated link to the current directory. Don't touch
>>>> that.
>>> Thank heavens there's one sane person reading today. Obviously no-one else
>>> here was ever new to Linux.
>> You mean new to the concept of files and directories? This is not Linux-only.
>> The . and .. existed even in MS-DOS back in the 80's. And they still exist,
>> actually. The problem is that today people working under Windows [7|Vista|XP]
>> never get to open a terminal anymore, and various GUI's play smart with them
>> and don't show the links to current and parent directories.
>
> Sure, but: Nobody's guilty *not* to have seen this stuff in her/his
> whole life just because she/he never looked at it. There may be multiple
> reasons for that, one of them may be a simple 'I was born in 1996 and
> never had the chance to work with CP/M'.

Never say "never". You still have the opportunity to work with CP/M,
either with custom built hardware or any of a number of good simulators
currently available on Source Forge. There is still an active Usenet
newsgroup on the topic (comp.os.cpm), with hardware being designed and
new kits being sold. Almost all of the source code is now available at
<http://www.cpm.z80.de/>.

Bob McConnell
N2SPP
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Old 12-29-2009, 04:08 PM
Timo Schoeler
 
Default mkdir this "." directory

Bob McConnell wrote:
> Timo Schoeler wrote:
>> Marko Vojinovic wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 29 December 2009 14:46:23 Anne Wilson wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday 29 December 2009 13:59:43 Ugo Bellavance wrote:
>>>>> On 2009-12-28 18:49, adrian kok wrote:
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have this . folder under tmp
>>>>> It is a system-generated link to the current directory. Don't touch
>>>>> that.
>>>> Thank heavens there's one sane person reading today. Obviously no-one else
>>>> here was ever new to Linux.
>>> You mean new to the concept of files and directories? This is not Linux-only.
>>> The . and .. existed even in MS-DOS back in the 80's. And they still exist,
>>> actually. The problem is that today people working under Windows [7|Vista|XP]
>>> never get to open a terminal anymore, and various GUI's play smart with them
>>> and don't show the links to current and parent directories.
>> Sure, but: Nobody's guilty *not* to have seen this stuff in her/his
>> whole life just because she/he never looked at it. There may be multiple
>> reasons for that, one of them may be a simple 'I was born in 1996 and
>> never had the chance to work with CP/M'.
>
> Never say "never". You still have the opportunity to work with CP/M,
> either with custom built hardware or any of a number of good simulators
> currently available on Source Forge. There is still an active Usenet
> newsgroup on the topic (comp.os.cpm), with hardware being designed and
> new kits being sold. Almost all of the source code is now available at
> <http://www.cpm.z80.de/>.

Sorry:

s/had the chance/was forced to/g

I still run IRIX, even NeXTSTEP -- just for fun; I run AIX on my
personal workstation. So, if there's anybody out there willing to have a
look at well designed/funny/whatever operating systems...

> Bob McConnell
> N2SPP

Timo
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Old 12-29-2009, 04:30 PM
Jake Shipton
 
Default mkdir this "." directory

On 28/12/09 23:49, adrian kok wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have this . folder under tmp
>
> 1/ How they can make it this folder?
>
> 2/ How can I remove it?
>
> Thank you
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>
>
Your question may be amusing to some. Just take no notice of them

I'll give you a quick briefing though, you will find the "." in every
single directory, without it, you probably would be completely unable
to browse through directories at all.

The "." can be used as follows:

"cd ../" - This would step you to a lower directory. in other words you
would go from "/home/you/folder" to "/home/you"

This could also be used more for example to go from "/home/you/folder
/folder 2/" to simply the main "/" (This is the very top directory of
a drive) you could do:

"cd ../../../../" (or in this case you could cheat and just do "cd /",
but I'm just using this as an example ;-))

another use for the dots is like this:

"./configure" - Generally used when configuring make files, but this
tells the system to stay in directory in right now, and run that file.

Also could be used like this:

"sh ./shfile.sh" which pretty much does the same thing as above, only
this time your telling an application to run first, and then telling
the app to do above.

Oh and eh, do *not* delete those dots

Also, you cannot create directory with just a dot. However, you could
make a directory starting with a dot.

For example ".folder" this will hide the directory from normal view
(However can still be seen given the right commands)

If you run with a gui, you'll probably have a few dotted folders in
your home dir. If so run "ls" and then "ls -a" and you'll see a few
folders magically appear. Bare in mind, if your out of ~ you will
need to pop back to it, to jump back to home dir just run "cd ~". :-)

Hope this helps :-)

--
Jake
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Old 12-29-2009, 04:35 PM
 
Default mkdir this "." directory

> Marko Vojinovic wrote:
>> On Tuesday 29 December 2009 14:46:23 Anne Wilson wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 29 December 2009 13:59:43 Ugo Bellavance wrote:
>>>> On 2009-12-28 18:49, adrian kok wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have this . folder under tmp
>>>> It is a system-generated link to the current directory. Don't touch
>>>> that.
>>> Thank heavens there's one sane person reading today. Obviously no-one
>>> else here was ever new to Linux.
>>
>> You mean new to the concept of files and directories? This is not
>> Linux-only.The . and .. existed even in MS-DOS back in the 80's. And
>> they still exist, actually. The problem is that today people working
>> under Windows [7|Vista|XP] never get to open a terminal anymore, and
>> various GUI's play smart with them
>> and don't show the links to current and parent directories.
>
> Sure, but: Nobody's guilty *not* to have seen this stuff in her/his
> whole life just because she/he never looked at it. There may be multiple
> reasons for that, one of them may be a simple 'I was born in 1996 and
> never had the chance to work with CP/M'.

On the other hand, someone *is* guilty if they pick up something new, and
DON'T BOTHER TO RTFM, even cursorily.

mark

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Old 12-29-2009, 05:21 PM
John R Pierce
 
Default mkdir this "." directory

Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> You mean new to the concept of files and directories? This is not Linux-only.
> The . and .. existed even in MS-DOS back in the 80's.

having an actual . and .. file in a directory is a distinctly Unix
practice. It leads to some funny behavior too, especially when
combined with symlinks

for instance, say /home/pierce is a symlink to /home2/pierce and I'm
in /home and go cd pierce, then go cd .. in *some* unix systems,
that cd .. takes me back to home, in others takes me to /home2





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Old 12-29-2009, 05:34 PM
Stephen Harris
 
Default mkdir this "." directory

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 10:21:01AM -0800, John R Pierce wrote:

> for instance, say /home/pierce is a symlink to /home2/pierce and I'm
> in /home and go cd pierce, then go cd .. in *some* unix systems,
> that cd .. takes me back to home, in others takes me to /home2

It's actually shell dependent, not Unix platform dependent. Some shells
(eg bash, ksh) perform parsing of the "cd" parameter and so will appear
to back-out of symlinks. Other (typically older) shells just naively
do a chdir("..") call, which will take you to the real parent directory.

Sometimes both behaviours are useful, so I've created a function "up"

up()
{
cd "`/bin/pwd`/.."
}

So...

/home/sweh$ cd public_html
/home/sweh/public_html$ cd ..
/home/sweh$ cd public_html
/home/sweh/public_html$ up
/autofs/publish$ ls -l /home/sweh/public_html
lrwxrwxrwx 1 sweh sweh 20 Jun 8 2008 /home/sweh/public_html -> /autofs/publish/public_html/

Symlinks combined with automounters... fun :-)

--

rgds
Stephen
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Old 12-29-2009, 05:49 PM
Benjamin Franz
 
Default mkdir this "." directory

John R Pierce wrote:
> Marko Vojinovic wrote:
>
>> You mean new to the concept of files and directories? This is not Linux-only.
>> The . and .. existed even in MS-DOS back in the 80's.
>>
>
> having an actual . and .. file in a directory is a distinctly Unix
> practice. It leads to some funny behavior too, especially when
> combined with symlinks

Umm. No. Try launching a 'cmd' shell under Windows (whatever version)
and doing a 'dir' anywhere except the root directory and you will see
'.' and '..' entries.

--

Benjamin Franz

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Old 12-29-2009, 06:20 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default mkdir this "." directory

On Tuesday 29 December 2009 18:21:01 John R Pierce wrote:
> Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> > You mean new to the concept of files and directories? This is not
> > Linux-only. The . and .. existed even in MS-DOS back in the 80's.
>
> having an actual . and .. file in a directory is a distinctly Unix
> practice.

I was not trying to say that . and .. were *invented* in MS-DOS. I was just
commenting that it is not Linux-specific (or Unix-specific). The point was that
a newbie would encounter . and .. equally well on both Linux and Windows
systems. The only difference is that Windows does not encourage the use of a
terminal, unlike Linux. Therefore, the fact that someone is confused by the
existence of . in some directory is mainly the fault of GUI-for-everything
philosophy of Windows.

Best, :-)
Marko

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