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Old 12-16-2009, 06:59 PM
John R Pierce
 
Default Silly question x64 vs i386

Scot P. Floess wrote:
> I have a really silly question... but just want to ask...
>
> I have one box on my home network that is x86_64 capable... My other
> boxes are all i386. As this x86_64 machine can, at most, house 4 GB of
> RAM (currently only has 1 GB) - is there any advantage to my running
> x86_64 on that machine instead of i386... Long story as to why I am
> asking - but before I go off and moveit down to i386 - just wanted some
> opinions
>

on most 64bit capable x86 CPUs, 64bit code is faster, because the x86_64
mode has more registers than the traditional i386. On the first gen
Intel x86_64 CPUs, that would be P4's that had 64bit added to them, I'd
probably stick with 32bit, but on any AMD or Intel Core CPU, I'd
probably use x86_64 by default.


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Old 12-16-2009, 07:01 PM
"nate"
 
Default Silly question x64 vs i386

Scot P. Floess wrote:
> I have a really silly question... but just want to ask...
>
> I have one box on my home network that is x86_64 capable... My other
> boxes are all i386. As this x86_64 machine can, at most, house 4 GB of
> RAM (currently only has 1 GB) - is there any advantage to my running
> x86_64 on that machine instead of i386... Long story as to why I am
> asking - but before I go off and moveit down to i386 - just wanted some
> opinions

Really depends on what you are going to use it for, my own home system
is 3GB and runs i386 mainly for software compatibility reasons, my
co-located server runs i386 with 6GB ram mainly because VMware doesn't
support 64-bit mode on the older Xeons I have, so not a big point for
me to go 64-bit(and memory usage is quite low anyways).

Myself I make it a point when dealing with VMs at least to make them
32-bit unless they need a lot of memory, then I make them 64-bit. On
any modern host I have they are all 64-bit, and typically have
a minimum of 16-32GB of ram, so one would have to go to the nuthouse
to run 32-bit on 16+GB of ram these days..my own cut off point, line
in the sand for 32-64bit is 8GB. But certainly there are cases that
you want 64-bit for even a system running 3GB(such as running a
DB or VM process that uses a lot of memory).

I would say stick to whatever your using now if it works, if the
rest of your network is i386 and that one box is i386, and you
could move it to x86_64, I would leave it at i386 myself.

nate


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Old 12-16-2009, 07:02 PM
"Scot P. Floess"
 
Default Silly question x64 vs i386

Its a Dell Pentium D - basically x86_64 but does not support hardware
virtualization. Its a Dell Poweredge SC430 if that helps???

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009, John R Pierce wrote:

> Scot P. Floess wrote:
>> I have a really silly question... but just want to ask...
>>
>> I have one box on my home network that is x86_64 capable... My other
>> boxes are all i386. As this x86_64 machine can, at most, house 4 GB of
>> RAM (currently only has 1 GB) - is there any advantage to my running
>> x86_64 on that machine instead of i386... Long story as to why I am
>> asking - but before I go off and moveit down to i386 - just wanted some
>> opinions
>>
>
> on most 64bit capable x86 CPUs, 64bit code is faster, because the x86_64
> mode has more registers than the traditional i386. On the first gen
> Intel x86_64 CPUs, that would be P4's that had 64bit added to them, I'd
> probably stick with 32bit, but on any AMD or Intel Core CPU, I'd
> probably use x86_64 by default.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>

Scot P. Floess
27 Lake Royale
Louisburg, NC 27549

252-478-8087 (Home)
919-890-8117 (Work)

Chief Architect JPlate http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate
Chief Architect JavaPIM http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim

Architect Keros http://sourceforge.net/projects/keros
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
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http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
 
Old 12-16-2009, 07:05 PM
"Scot P. Floess"
 
Default Silly question x64 vs i386

so to be honest...what really spawned this... I put all my VMs on an NFS
share. I've got an F11 VM I run...but on my x86_64 host - starting the
F11 VM (its an i386 VM) fails to start. If I run F11 x86_64 it works
fine. I' really just trying to simplify things and standards on one type
of VM Yes, I don't have any issues with CentOS guest VMs being i386
and running on the x86_64 host - works fine...

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009, nate wrote:

> Scot P. Floess wrote:
>> I have a really silly question... but just want to ask...
>>
>> I have one box on my home network that is x86_64 capable... My other
>> boxes are all i386. As this x86_64 machine can, at most, house 4 GB of
>> RAM (currently only has 1 GB) - is there any advantage to my running
>> x86_64 on that machine instead of i386... Long story as to why I am
>> asking - but before I go off and moveit down to i386 - just wanted some
>> opinions
>
> Really depends on what you are going to use it for, my own home system
> is 3GB and runs i386 mainly for software compatibility reasons, my
> co-located server runs i386 with 6GB ram mainly because VMware doesn't
> support 64-bit mode on the older Xeons I have, so not a big point for
> me to go 64-bit(and memory usage is quite low anyways).
>
> Myself I make it a point when dealing with VMs at least to make them
> 32-bit unless they need a lot of memory, then I make them 64-bit. On
> any modern host I have they are all 64-bit, and typically have
> a minimum of 16-32GB of ram, so one would have to go to the nuthouse
> to run 32-bit on 16+GB of ram these days..my own cut off point, line
> in the sand for 32-64bit is 8GB. But certainly there are cases that
> you want 64-bit for even a system running 3GB(such as running a
> DB or VM process that uses a lot of memory).
>
> I would say stick to whatever your using now if it works, if the
> rest of your network is i386 and that one box is i386, and you
> could move it to x86_64, I would leave it at i386 myself.
>
> nate
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>

Scot P. Floess
27 Lake Royale
Louisburg, NC 27549

252-478-8087 (Home)
919-890-8117 (Work)

Chief Architect JPlate http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate
Chief Architect JavaPIM http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim

Architect Keros http://sourceforge.net/projects/keros
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
 
Old 12-16-2009, 07:15 PM
 
Default Silly question x64 vs i386

> I have a really silly question... but just want to ask...
>
> I have one box on my home network that is x86_64 capable... My other
> boxes are all i386. As this x86_64 machine can, at most, house 4 GB of
> RAM (currently only has 1 GB) - is there any advantage to my running
> x86_64 on that machine instead of i386... Long story as to why I am
> asking - but before I go off and moveit down to i386 - just wanted some
> opinions

Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: every single move, down at the machine/assembly level, can
move twice as many bits as on a 32-bit system. That will show up as a very
serious speed increase in your software.

mark "why you should *always* have an assembler course"

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Old 12-16-2009, 07:15 PM
John R Pierce
 
Default Silly question x64 vs i386

Scot P. Floess wrote:
> Its a Dell Pentium D - basically x86_64 but does not support hardware
> virtualization. Its a Dell Poweredge SC430 if that helps???
>

I believe those were a pair of the P4 "Prescott" chips in a single
package, and pretty much what I said, 64bit works, but there's little
point in it unless you have a need for the large memory.




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Old 12-16-2009, 07:17 PM
"Scot P. Floess"
 
Default Silly question x64 vs i386

Ah good point... Wasn't thinking in those terms... Well clearly wasn't
thinking at all

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:

>> I have a really silly question... but just want to ask...
>>
>> I have one box on my home network that is x86_64 capable... My other
>> boxes are all i386. As this x86_64 machine can, at most, house 4 GB of
>> RAM (currently only has 1 GB) - is there any advantage to my running
>> x86_64 on that machine instead of i386... Long story as to why I am
>> asking - but before I go off and moveit down to i386 - just wanted some
>> opinions
>
> Short answer: yes.
>
> Longer answer: every single move, down at the machine/assembly level, can
> move twice as many bits as on a 32-bit system. That will show up as a very
> serious speed increase in your software.
>
> mark "why you should *always* have an assembler course"
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>

Scot P. Floess
27 Lake Royale
Louisburg, NC 27549

252-478-8087 (Home)
919-890-8117 (Work)

Chief Architect JPlate http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate
Chief Architect JavaPIM http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim

Architect Keros http://sourceforge.net/projects/keros
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
 
Old 12-16-2009, 07:18 PM
"Scot P. Floess"
 
Default Silly question x64 vs i386

Hey thats an interesting bit of trivia - thanks Large memory - bah -
this silly machine maxes out at 4 GB...

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009, John R Pierce wrote:

> Scot P. Floess wrote:
>> Its a Dell Pentium D - basically x86_64 but does not support hardware
>> virtualization. Its a Dell Poweredge SC430 if that helps???
>>
>
> I believe those were a pair of the P4 "Prescott" chips in a single
> package, and pretty much what I said, 64bit works, but there's little
> point in it unless you have a need for the large memory.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>

Scot P. Floess
27 Lake Royale
Louisburg, NC 27549

252-478-8087 (Home)
919-890-8117 (Work)

Chief Architect JPlate http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate
Chief Architect JavaPIM http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim

Architect Keros http://sourceforge.net/projects/keros
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
 
Old 12-16-2009, 07:30 PM
Robert Heller
 
Default Silly question x64 vs i386

At Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:53:01 -0500 (EST) CentOS mailing list <centos@centos.org> wrote:

>
> I have a really silly question... but just want to ask...
>
> I have one box on my home network that is x86_64 capable... My other
> boxes are all i386. As this x86_64 machine can, at most, house 4 GB of
> RAM (currently only has 1 GB) - is there any advantage to my running
> x86_64 on that machine instead of i386... Long story as to why I am
> asking - but before I go off and moveit down to i386 - just wanted some
> opinions

With only 1gig of RAM there is little reason for 64-bit addressing -- 1
gig is well within the range of 32-bit addressing (yes, you could set up
a large swap partition and have lots of virtual addressing, but
swapping like 8 gig of VM in and out of 1 gig of physical RAM would be
painful).

Also, 64-bit apps tend to be a little larger then their 32-bit versions
(fatter pointers, integers, etc.). With 1 gig memory will be a wee bit
tighter (modern 64-bit machines would normally have lots more RAM...).

With what is obvious and 'older' 64-bit system, being limited to 4gig
of RAM (which is still just within 32-bit address space), going 64-bit
with this system would not buy you much. If you want a consistent
operating environment, especially if you don't want to maintain two
separate sets of updates, keeping all of your boxes at 32-bit for the
time being probably makes sense. If and when you upgrade things, going
64-bit might make sense.


>
> Scot P. Floess
> 27 Lake Royale
> Louisburg, NC 27549
>
> 252-478-8087 (Home)
> 919-890-8117 (Work)
>
> Chief Architect JPlate http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate
> Chief Architect JavaPIM http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim
>
> Architect Keros http://sourceforge.net/projects/keros
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>
>

--
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows
heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/

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Old 12-16-2009, 07:36 PM
Frank Cox
 
Default Silly question x64 vs i386

On Wed, 2009-12-16 at 14:53 -0500, Scot P. Floess wrote:
> is there any advantage to my running
> x86_64 on that machine instead of i386...

A better question might be, do you have any particular reason not to run
x86_64 on that machine?

All of my machines and the machines that I look after are now running
Centos x86_64, with the exception of one LTSP server and my Acer Aspire
One laptop. The Acer netbook can't, of course, and the LTSP server runs
dosemu which is much slower on x86_64.

I just set up a new telephone answering system the other day and now
it's x86_64 too. Not for any particular reason, but why not? The
hardware can handle it and I see no reason not to.

--
MELVILLE THEATRE ~ Melville Sask ~ http://www.melvilletheatre.com

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