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Old 12-08-2009, 06:02 PM
Jerry Geis
 
Default 486 custom kernel

Hi all,

Is it possible to take the 686 CentOS 5, install that in virtual machine,
install a custom kernel that is the 486 flavor, take that image and
put it on a 8G CF card - insert that into a small form factor 486 class
machine and have that work?

I am hoping the extra instructions in a 686 (MMX, SEE etc) are not used
by any libraries
that I would be using (just standard stuff) and the new 486 compiled
kernel would not be
using those instructions either.

Can this possible work? I am hoping to not use debian i386 basically.

Thanks,

Jerry
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:28 PM
Alan McKay
 
Default 486 custom kernel

When you create a virtual machine don't you have a choice of what type
of processor you want and so forth?

That would be the clean way to do it would it not?


--
“Don't eat anything you've ever seen advertised on TV”
- Michael Pollan, author of "In Defense of Food"
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:35 PM
R P Herrold
 
Default 486 custom kernel

On Tue, 8 Dec 2009, Alan McKay wrote:

> When you create a virtual machine don't you have a choice of
> what type of processor you want and so forth?

nope

> That would be the clean way to do it would it not?

It may be one way to do it, but that is not how xen or kvm are
ordinarily set up under CentOS -- qemu has (had) the hooks to
simulate the missing opcodes of some arch's, but at a
performance penalty

-- Russ herrold
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:51 PM
John R Pierce
 
Default 486 custom kernel

Jerry Geis wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is it possible to take the 686 CentOS 5, install that in virtual machine,
> install a custom kernel that is the 486 flavor, take that image and
> put it on a 8G CF card - insert that into a small form factor 486 class
> machine and have that work?
>
> I am hoping the extra instructions in a 686 (MMX, SEE etc) are not used
> by any libraries
> that I would be using (just standard stuff) and the new 486 compiled
> kernel would not be
> using those instructions either.
>
> Can this possible work? I am hoping to not use debian i386 basically.
>

first, you'd need to reconfigure that linux running in a VM to run in
whatever hardware your embedded platform provides (network, disk, etc).

second, you'd not only need a new kernel, but also any usermode packages
that are -i686 or -i586 would need recompiling. there's more than you
might think.

check out http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
that will run on nearly -anything- with very minimal resources. the
standard version fits on a 50MB live mini-CD (those credit card shaped
things).

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Old 12-08-2009, 06:54 PM
Jerry Geis
 
Default 486 custom kernel

>
> It may be one way to do it, but that is not how xen or kvm are
> ordinarily set up under CentOS -- qemu has (had) the hooks to
> simulate the missing opcodes of some arch's, but at a
> performance penalty
>
if there is a way to "simulate" missing opcodes in the kernel - that would
be great also. I dont care if there is a performace hit.

I am looking for a way to run the 686 centos on a 486 machine.
I was hoping I could just recompile the kernel as 486 and any libraries
would not be using MMX/SSE etc...

Looking for any solution.

Jerry
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:04 PM
R P Herrold
 
Default 486 custom kernel

On Tue, 8 Dec 2009, Jerry Geis wrote:

> Looking for any solution.

how deep is your wallet

I would just find a 486 out in the boneyard.

As I still have a RHL 4.2 486/33 s/ 16 meg of ram in daily
service, I know just what machine to pull and replace

-- Russ herrold
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:07 PM
Robert Heller
 
Default 486 custom kernel

At Tue, 08 Dec 2009 14:02:28 -0500 CentOS mailing list <centos@centos.org> wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> Is it possible to take the 686 CentOS 5, install that in virtual machine,
> install a custom kernel that is the 486 flavor, take that image and
> put it on a 8G CF card - insert that into a small form factor 486 class
> machine and have that work?

Will this small form factor 486 class machine be on the public internet
network? If not (and thus not needing any current security patches,
etc.), you might consider install RH 7.3 on it. RH 7.3 includes a
*stock* i386 2.4 kernel (RedHat never built i486 kernels and I am not
sure if anyone else bothered to either). I would also guess that the
small form factor 486 class machine probably is NOT going to have
modern I/O items, so you *probably* won't need any new kernel modules
(eg SATA or fancy video or sound or network cards, etc.). I fould a set
of RH 7.3 CDs on-line (*one* of the old mirrors still has it on line:

ftp://mirror.atlantic.net/pub/redhat-archive/7.3/

And I snarfed the ISOs to my server:

ftp://ftp.deepsoft.com/pub/RH7.3/iso/i386/

(I have an interst in using RH 7.3 on old '486 boxes and use them as
model RR control nodes.)

>
> I am hoping the extra instructions in a 686 (MMX, SEE etc) are not used
> by any libraries

Only some libraries (glibc for one, but it is available in several
'flavors', I think including a vanila i386 flavor).

> that I would be using (just standard stuff) and the new 486 compiled
> kernel would not be
> using those instructions either.
>
> Can this possible work? I am hoping to not use debian i386 basically.

Since various packages that would be installed on a 686 machine would
be built for the 686 arch, you can't just copy the image of the 686
install onto a 486 system. You'll need to do a re-install to a 486
target. You can rebuild the kernel on the 686 (virtual or otherwise)
and I believe all of the *.i686.rpm's are available as *.i386.rpm's.
Somehow you will need to hack things at the install level to force a
plain i386 install. You might need to hack anaconda and insert the i386
kernel or some such. Or do a careful downgrade of all of the i686
packages to i386 packages (in addition to the kernel itself).

>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>
>

--
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows
heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/

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Old 12-08-2009, 09:28 PM
Tim Nelson
 
Default 486 custom kernel

----- "Marko Vojinovic" <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday 08 December 2009 19:54:03 Jerry Geis wrote:
> > > It may be one way to do it, but that is not how xen or kvm are
> > > ordinarily set up under CentOS -- qemu has (had) the hooks to
> > > simulate the missing opcodes of some arch's, but at a
> > > performance penalty
> >
> > if there is a way to "simulate" missing opcodes in the kernel - that
> would
> > be great also. I dont care if there is a performace hit.
> >
> > I am looking for a way to run the 686 centos on a 486 machine.
> > I was hoping I could just recompile the kernel as 486 and any
> libraries
> > would not be using MMX/SSE etc...
>
> I am no expert on this, but have a feeling that you would basically
> need to
> recompile every package that does not have an .i386 rpm.
>
> And if you are about to recompile things, why not use gentoo or
> something like
> that?

Gentoo? What do you have against the OP? Why subject him to such madness and unnecessary pain?

In my recent trip through i486 land, I found that Debian seems to be the best bet for nearly all packages being natively available in i386. Also, the installation can be pruned down to a very slim ~140MB if you're careful.

Tim Nelson
Systems/Network Support
Rockbochs Inc.
(218)727-4332 x105
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:32 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default 486 custom kernel

On Tuesday 08 December 2009 19:54:03 Jerry Geis wrote:
> > It may be one way to do it, but that is not how xen or kvm are
> > ordinarily set up under CentOS -- qemu has (had) the hooks to
> > simulate the missing opcodes of some arch's, but at a
> > performance penalty
>
> if there is a way to "simulate" missing opcodes in the kernel - that would
> be great also. I dont care if there is a performace hit.
>
> I am looking for a way to run the 686 centos on a 486 machine.
> I was hoping I could just recompile the kernel as 486 and any libraries
> would not be using MMX/SSE etc...

I am no expert on this, but have a feeling that you would basically need to
recompile every package that does not have an .i386 rpm.

And if you are about to recompile things, why not use gentoo or something like
that?

Best, :-)
Marko

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Old 12-08-2009, 09:50 PM
Robert Heller
 
Default 486 custom kernel

At Tue, 8 Dec 2009 16:28:22 -0600 (CST) CentOS mailing list <centos@centos.org> wrote:

>
> ----- "Marko Vojinovic" <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tuesday 08 December 2009 19:54:03 Jerry Geis wrote:
> > > > It may be one way to do it, but that is not how xen or kvm are
> > > > ordinarily set up under CentOS -- qemu has (had) the hooks to
> > > > simulate the missing opcodes of some arch's, but at a
> > > > performance penalty
> > >
> > > if there is a way to "simulate" missing opcodes in the kernel - that
> > would
> > > be great also. I dont care if there is a performace hit.
> > >
> > > I am looking for a way to run the 686 centos on a 486 machine.
> > > I was hoping I could just recompile the kernel as 486 and any
> > libraries
> > > would not be using MMX/SSE etc...
> >
> > I am no expert on this, but have a feeling that you would basically
> > need to
> > recompile every package that does not have an .i386 rpm.
> >
> > And if you are about to recompile things, why not use gentoo or
> > something like
> > that?
>
> Gentoo? What do you have against the OP? Why subject him to such madness and unnecessary pain?
>
> In my recent trip through i486 land, I found that Debian seems to be the best bet for nearly all packages being natively available in i386. Also, the installation can be pruned down to a very slim ~140MB if you're careful.

The OP already stated that he wanted to avoid Debian. I think he wants
to stick with a RPM-based distro. Unless he needs a 2.6 kernel and the
latest security patches, RH 7.3 would be a good RPM-based distro. And
yes, it is still out there and available for downloading.

>
> Tim Nelson
> Systems/Network Support
> Rockbochs Inc.
> (218)727-4332 x105
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>
>

--
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows
heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/

_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
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http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
 

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