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Old 11-25-2008, 02:45 PM
Vandaman
 
Default Stop the FUD Xen is not deprecated

Do people have wet underwear for nothing over XEN?

See http://www.redhat.com/promo/qumranet/

<snip>
Q: Will Red Hat continue to support and contribute to Xen?

A: Yes. Red Hat will support Xen until at least 2014
(seven years after the release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5).
We are committed to insulating our customers from changes in
the infrastructure components and this is why we created an open
virtualization management standard (the Libvirt API). This
standard is provided in Red Hat products and has been adopted
by a number of other vendors (Sun, Novell, Ubuntu, etc.).
It allows customers and ISVs to build virtualization management
applications, processes and configurations based on a stable API,
independent of the underlying virtualization technology.

Red Hat continues to be an active member of the Xen development
community and is currently working on further integration work
between the Xen hypervisor and the Linux kernel.

</snip>

As far as CentOS is concerned saying Xen is deprecated is
jumping the gun. CentOS ships with Xen and as long as upstream
supports it, CentOS by extension supports it.

Regards,
Vandaman.




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Old 11-25-2008, 04:07 PM
"Brett Serkez"
 
Default Stop the FUD Xen is not deprecated

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Vandaman <vandaman2002-sk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Do people have wet underwear for nothing over XEN?
>
> See http://www.redhat.com/promo/qumranet/
>
> As far as CentOS is concerned saying Xen is deprecated is
> jumping the gun. CentOS ships with Xen and as long as upstream
> supports it, CentOS by extension supports it.

Thank you for the clarification.

What isn't clear from reading the above referenced material is if Xen
will be included in future CentOS releases.

Brett
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Old 11-25-2008, 05:08 PM
"nate"
 
Default Stop the FUD Xen is not deprecated

Brett Serkez wrote:

> What isn't clear from reading the above referenced material is if Xen
> will be included in future CentOS releases.


If it's included in future RHEL releases then it will be included
in future CentOS releases.

Red Hat says they will support Xen for the duration of the RHEL 5
support cycle. They haven't specified whether or not Xen will be
an option in RHEL 6, at least I haven't seen a statement around
that yet. If it's not in RHEL6 it won't be shipped in CentOS 6
(maybe it will be made available via 3rd party repositories).

So if you plan to use CentOS 5.x for the next several years then
you have nothing to worry about if you want to stick to Xen.
I really wouldn't expect significant effort to be put into
Xen in the future beyond fixing bugs and stuff. If you want
a fully supported Xen go get it from Citrix.

I've been watching Xen myself since it first came out and never
found it compelling so it's kind of vindication for me as I've
had justify not using Xen a few times in the past couple years.

nate

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Old 11-25-2008, 05:43 PM
Ned Slider
 
Default Stop the FUD Xen is not deprecated

Brett Serkez wrote:

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Vandaman <vandaman2002-sk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Do people have wet underwear for nothing over XEN?

See http://www.redhat.com/promo/qumranet/

As far as CentOS is concerned saying Xen is deprecated is
jumping the gun. CentOS ships with Xen and as long as upstream
supports it, CentOS by extension supports it.


Thank you for the clarification.

What isn't clear from reading the above referenced material is if Xen
will be included in future CentOS releases.



Which is why I originally wrote...

"*Some* are interpreting this... as an indication that xen will be
dropped from RHEL6 as they direct their efforts towards KVM."


*If* xen is not included in RHEL6 then it will, by definition, be
deprecated in favour of KVM irrespective of whether (or not) RH
continues to support it throughout the life of RHEL5. Note that xen was
dropped (not deprecated, dropped) in Fedora 10, read into that what you
will


So xen isn't technically deprecated yet, but if I were a betting man, I
wouldn't be putting all my eggs in a virtualized xen basket.


Some might choose to call that FUD, and that's their prerogative. In a
way they're right as Red Hat's statement on xen does contain elements of
uncertainty and doubt as they have not committed to continued ongoing
support of xen past the current RHEL5 product lifecycle, and that may
make some fearful for it's long term future within the Red Hat landscape.



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Old 11-25-2008, 06:13 PM
Tom Brown
 
Default Stop the FUD Xen is not deprecated

Which is why I originally wrote...

"*Some* are interpreting this... as an indication that xen will be
dropped from RHEL6 as they direct their efforts towards KVM."


*If* xen is not included in RHEL6 then it will, by definition, be
deprecated in favour of KVM irrespective of whether (or not) RH
continues to support it throughout the life of RHEL5. Note that xen
was dropped (not deprecated, dropped) in Fedora 10, read into that
what you will


So xen isn't technically deprecated yet, but if I were a betting man,
I wouldn't be putting all my eggs in a virtualized xen basket.


Some might choose to call that FUD, and that's their prerogative. In a
way they're right as Red Hat's statement on xen does contain elements
of uncertainty and doubt as they have not committed to continued
ongoing support of xen past the current RHEL5 product lifecycle, and
that may make some fearful for it's long term future within the Red
Hat landscape.



Xen wont be in RHEL6 - KVM will

libvirt handles both so fundamentally it makes no difference as to what
the virtualization technology is as the way its managed will not change

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Old 11-25-2008, 06:22 PM
"Brett Serkez"
 
Default Stop the FUD Xen is not deprecated

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Tom Brown <tom@ng23.net> wrote:
<snip>
>
> Xen wont be in RHEL6 - KVM will

What insight can be offered on this change? Is this a business or
technical or both decision?

> libvirt handles both so fundamentally it makes no difference as to what the
> virtualization technology is as the way its managed will not change

I would image there has to be a conversion, for instance the format of
the disk image, or the way that networking is setup?

Brett
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Old 11-25-2008, 06:32 PM
"Bo Lynch"
 
Default Stop the FUD Xen is not deprecated

On Tue, November 25, 2008 2:33 pm, Rainer Duffner wrote:
>
> Am 25.11.2008 um 20:22 schrieb Brett Serkez:
>
>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Tom Brown <tom@ng23.net> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Xen wont be in RHEL6 - KVM will
>>
>> What insight can be offered on this change? Is this a business or
>> technical or both decision?
>
>
> From what I have heard of people who actually know a bit about
> virtualization and kernel-design, it probably wasn't a hard decision
> on the technical side.
>
> Business... well, Citrix owns it now, more or less. That itself
> probably was enough to send it to the bin.
> Everybody is running their favorite fork of it anyway.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> libvirt handles both so fundamentally it makes no difference as to
>>> what the
>>> virtualization technology is as the way its managed will not change
>>
>> I would image there has to be a conversion, for instance the format of
>> the disk image, or the way that networking is setup?
>
>
> They have some years to figure it out.
> ;-)
>
>
>
>
> cheers,
> Rainer

I was thinking about implementing Xen for our school district. Now that
I'm hearing all of this I guess I need to look at something else.
What does everyone recommend?
Thanks
Bo Lynch


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Old 11-25-2008, 06:33 PM
Rainer Duffner
 
Default Stop the FUD Xen is not deprecated

Am 25.11.2008 um 20:22 schrieb Brett Serkez:


On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Tom Brown <tom@ng23.net> wrote:
<snip>


Xen wont be in RHEL6 - KVM will


What insight can be offered on this change? Is this a business or
technical or both decision?



From what I have heard of people who actually know a bit about
virtualization and kernel-design, it probably wasn't a hard decision
on the technical side.


Business... well, Citrix owns it now, more or less. That itself
probably was enough to send it to the bin.

Everybody is running their favorite fork of it anyway.






libvirt handles both so fundamentally it makes no difference as to
what the

virtualization technology is as the way its managed will not change


I would image there has to be a conversion, for instance the format of
the disk image, or the way that networking is setup?



They have some years to figure it out.
;-)




cheers,
Rainer
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Old 11-25-2008, 06:36 PM
"Stephen John Smoogen"
 
Default Stop the FUD Xen is not deprecated

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Brett Serkez <bserkez@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Tom Brown <tom@ng23.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> Xen wont be in RHEL6 - KVM will
>
> What insight can be offered on this change? Is this a business or
> technical or both decision?

The main issue seems to be cost of porting fixes and Xen itself to
newer kernels. The fact that Xen did not get into mainstream kernel
made the costs higher and higher. KVM got into mainstream kernel and
thus has more eyes on it.




--
Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux
How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed
in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice"
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Old 11-25-2008, 06:55 PM
Rainer Duffner
 
Default Stop the FUD Xen is not deprecated

Am 25.11.2008 um 20:32 schrieb Bo Lynch:



I was thinking about implementing Xen for our school district. Now
that

I'm hearing all of this I guess I need to look at something else.
What does everyone recommend?
Thanks
Bo Lynch



How much money do you have?
What (how many systems, what do they do?) do you actually want to
virtualize?

Are you going to be around your school for the next couple of years?
;-)

On a small scale, running VMware ESX3i or VMware-server is perfectly
possible.




Rainer
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