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Old 10-24-2008, 05:23 PM
MHR
 
Default ls and rm: "argument list too long"

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Bill Campbell <centos@celestial.com> wrote:
>
>
> Programming to the lowest common denominator may not feel sexy,
> but it can prevent many headaches in the future. I spent quite a
> bit of time many years ago getting a large FORTRAN system working
> that had been written on a system that use 7 character variable
> names where standard FORTRAN only permitted 6 (it was amazing how
> many of the variable names differed only in the 7th character).
> While this would be relatively easy to deal with today, it was a
> bitch when all programs were on 80-column punch cards.
>

Okay, now you're officially old.

(Like me.)

mhr
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:19 PM
Ed Westphal
 
Default ls and rm: "argument list too long"

MHR wrote:

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Bill Campbell <centos@celestial.com> wrote:


Programming to the lowest common denominator may not feel sexy,
but it can prevent many headaches in the future. I spent quite a
bit of time many years ago getting a large FORTRAN system working
that had been written on a system that use 7 character variable
names where standard FORTRAN only permitted 6 (it was amazing how
many of the variable names differed only in the 7th character).
While this would be relatively easy to deal with today, it was a
bitch when all programs were on 80-column punch cards.




Okay, now you're officially old.

(Like me.)

mhr

Forgive my senility, but I'm continually amazed how many of us ole
fossils are still around, and running Linux! Not to use up too much
bandwidth, but the switch from Fortran 2 to 2D, for disk, was a big
event way back when. Then Fortran 4 came around! Be still my old heart!


ENW
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:28 PM
Scott Silva
 
Default ls and rm: "argument list too long"

on 10-24-2008 11:19 AM Ed Westphal spake the following:
> MHR wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Bill Campbell
>> <centos@celestial.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Programming to the lowest common denominator may not feel sexy,
>>> but it can prevent many headaches in the future. I spent quite a
>>> bit of time many years ago getting a large FORTRAN system working
>>> that had been written on a system that use 7 character variable
>>> names where standard FORTRAN only permitted 6 (it was amazing how
>>> many of the variable names differed only in the 7th character).
>>> While this would be relatively easy to deal with today, it was a
>>> bitch when all programs were on 80-column punch cards.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Okay, now you're officially old.
>>
>> (Like me.)
>>
>> mhr
>>
> Forgive my senility, but I'm continually amazed how many of us ole
> fossils are still around, and running Linux! Not to use up too much
> bandwidth, but the switch from Fortran 2 to 2D, for disk, was a big
> event way back when. Then Fortran 4 came around! Be still my old heart!
>
> ENW
When I learned Fortran IV in 1980 my teacher said that Fortran and Cobol were
the languages of the future!


--
MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't!!!!

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Old 10-24-2008, 10:46 PM
Bill Campbell
 
Default ls and rm: "argument list too long"

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008, Scott Silva wrote:
...
>When I learned Fortran IV in 1980 my teacher said that Fortran and Cobol were
>the languages of the future!

In a presentation at the 1985 Usenix conference, Rob Pike made a comment
that he didn't know what the language for scientific program of the future
would be, but that it would be called FORTRAN.

COBOL on Burroughs Medium Systems was an extremely powerful language. I
wrote some pretty large commerical systems with it. My main problems with
COBOL came when I had to run on a system other than Burroughs where COBOL
was not fully recursive, and missing features that I took for granted.

My first exposure to computers was in 1966 on a Bendix G-20 and their
Mishewaka FORTRAN. This version of FORTRAN was written by engineers, and
had features that were well ahead of IBM's FORTRAN:

+ Everything was done in floating point -- engineers don't grok
integers.

+ ``DO' loops would of course have floating point variables, and worked
as an engineer or mathematician would expect.

+ ``DO' loops tested at the top of the loop instead of at the end as
they did on IBM FORTRAN. Thus if the starting value was greater than
the terminating value nothing in the loop would be executed.

+ Free form input from cards (e.g. one could have ``PI=3.14159' and it
would do the reasonable thing.

+ Free form output.

Bill
--
INTERNET: bill@celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax: (206) 232-9186

I have never been molested by any person but those who represented the
state -- Thoreau
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:15 PM
Michael Peterson
 
Default ls and rm: "argument list too long"

Scott Silva wrote:

on 10-24-2008 11:19 AM Ed Westphal spake the following:


MHR wrote:


On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Bill Campbell
<centos@celestial.com> wrote:



Programming to the lowest common denominator may not feel sexy,
but it can prevent many headaches in the future. I spent quite a
bit of time many years ago getting a large FORTRAN system working
that had been written on a system that use 7 character variable
names where standard FORTRAN only permitted 6 (it was amazing how
many of the variable names differed only in the 7th character).
While this would be relatively easy to deal with today, it was a
bitch when all programs were on 80-column punch cards.




Okay, now you're officially old.

(Like me.)

mhr



Forgive my senility, but I'm continually amazed how many of us ole
fossils are still around, and running Linux! Not to use up too much
bandwidth, but the switch from Fortran 2 to 2D, for disk, was a big
event way back when. Then Fortran 4 came around! Be still my old heart!

ENW


When I learned Fortran IV in 1980 my teacher said that Fortran and Cobol were
the languages of the future!



------------------------------------------------------------------------


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I have been learning and using COBOL since the mid 80's.
I use COBOL at the present time for Web Programming also.
The COBOL we use runs on UNIX and Linux.
I use it in addition to PHP/MySQL for Web Programming.

I have looked at Fortran programs but never had to learn the language.
It is on a PDP 11 that we shutdown in the late 90's.



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Old 10-25-2008, 01:14 AM
fred smith
 
Default ls and rm: "argument list too long"

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 06:15:31PM -0500, Michael Peterson wrote:
> I have been learning and using COBOL since the mid 80's.
> I use COBOL at the present time for Web Programming also.
> The COBOL we use runs on UNIX and Linux.
> I use it in addition to PHP/MySQL for Web Programming.
>
> I have looked at Fortran programs but never had to learn the language.
> It is on a PDP 11 that we shutdown in the late 90's.

PDP-11... now there was a nice machine! That's where I first learned
Assembly language--and I definitely was spoiled by that. Now when I
look at assembler for, e.g. 80x86 machines I want to throw up. Nothing
has been anything as nice to program in since with the possible exception
of the 68000 family which had a lot of similarities.

--
---- Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us -----------------------------
"For him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his
glorious presence without fault and with great joy--to the only God our Savior
be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before
all ages, now and forevermore! Amen."
----------------------------- Jude 1:24,25 (niv) -----------------------------
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Old 10-25-2008, 04:15 AM
MHR
 
Default ls and rm: "argument list too long"

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Scott Silva <ssilva@sgvwater.com> wrote:
>
> When I learned Fortran IV in 1980 my teacher said that Fortran and Cobol were
> the languages of the future!
>

Sheesh! When I learned Fortran IV in 1974, we had the WatFour and
WatFive compilers, and were getting ready to upgrade to Fortran V.
Algol 68 was the language of the future.

All that changed when I learned Pascal at UCSD in 1978, another
"language of the future" that still is....

Still, we built a whole OS based on UCSD Pascal 2.0 (and then modified
it extensively) in 1980, and that was fine until I moved into DYNIX in
1987 - loved it, and C, and stayed there.

That's why I love Linux. Sort of.

mhr
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