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-   -   new list proposal - meaningless (http://www.linux-archive.org/centos/177346-new-list-proposal-meaningless.html)

Spike Turner 10-16-2008 10:20 AM

new list proposal - meaningless
 
Karanbir Singh wrote:

> Over a period of time, we would like to see the CentOS list
> become a
> more user help and distro specific list, with generic
> conversations
> moving to the centos-tech list.
>

perhaps that is why "core" issues in CentOS like the kernel
and samba are ignored by the developers? Examples :-

http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066143.html
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066154.html

Upsream is blamed/misunderstood for a lot of things but even
their developers take time to answer questions on the nahant-list
or fedora-list in their spare time.

If the CentOS devs don't have time to answer key questions such as
on the kernel but have time to consider fragmenting the mailing list
who wins/loses?

If the devs have the choice to ignore the core stuff there is also
the option of ignoring the non-core stuff.

Spike.




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Ralph Angenendt 10-16-2008 10:28 AM

new list proposal - meaningless
 
Spike Turner wrote:
> perhaps that is why "core" issues in CentOS like the kernel
> and samba are ignored by the developers? Examples :-
>
> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066143.html

We are not going to rebase except if upstream does. And maybe nobody
answered that because nobody is seeing "issues" with that samba
version?

> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066154.html

Yeah, that one is a problem.

Ralph
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Karanbir Singh 10-16-2008 04:52 PM

new list proposal - meaningless
 
Spike Turner wrote:
perhaps that is why "core" issues in CentOS like the kernel
and samba are ignored by the developers? Examples :-


http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066143.html


Thats a bit of a dribveby waste of space post that does not really merit
a reply from anyone. Also if that was something that concerns you so
much, what have you done about it ?



http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066154.html


Johnny has been working on those.


If the CentOS devs don't have time to answer key questions such as
on the kernel but have time to consider fragmenting the mailing list
who wins/loses?


What barriers did you run into when you tried to help with the situation
and try to be a better member of the community ?


- KB
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MHR 10-16-2008 05:11 PM

new list proposal - meaningless
 
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Karanbir Singh <mail-lists@karan.org> wrote:
>
>> If the CentOS devs don't have time to answer key questions such as
>> on the kernel but have time to consider fragmenting the mailing list
>> who wins/loses?
>
> What barriers did you run into when you tried to help with the situation and
> try to be a better member of the community ?
>

I'm just a small-time CentOS user, working (currently) in an
environment where CentOS is a prime candidate as the base OS for our
next major systems upgrade (for our application, to be distributed to
our entire customer base). At my last job, I was sufficiently
impressed with CentOS that I took it home and now use it exclusively
for my main desktop, laptop, at-work desktop (on two machines now!),
with Window$ running only as a VM using VMWare Server.

I've been in this business a long time, and I've seen a lot of things
happen, including splitting of mailing lists or other
group-communications efforts, I have a big mouth and am not (too)
afraid to use it, I try to be at least a bit funny in my postings, but
I also have a fuse that occasionally burns short with what I view as
truly stupid questions, and I ask my own fair share of them as well.

That said, I am drawn back to this paragraph from
http://www.centos.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=16:

"The CentOS discussion and information list is a general purpose
communication list for centos. Security updates are currently
announced on this list once daily. This list is read and reply for
anyone that is a member of the mailing list. (Archives)"

In that context, there is little that is completely off-topic here,
and IMNSHO, rightly so.

As Niki said earlier in this discussion, KISS.

List courtesy demands that when a list moderator (and I don't know who
all of these are, but I do know that KB is one of them) says, "this is
OT," that's the end of a discussion on this list. (Well, it should
be.)

Other than blatantly stupid or obviously unresearched questions (as we
see from time to time), the <delete> key/button is a great solution to
most of the issues that have given rise to this discussion, and it is
a lot less work that splitting (and managing the split of) this list.

IIRC, the most likely effect of such a list split is that one of the
new lists will prosper and grow, and the other will atrophy and die,
thus replacing this list with one of the new ones, which will then
serve the same purpose in the long run as this list already does. It
might take months, or years, but that's usually what happens, and it's
not worth the upheaval created in the first place.

However, I am neither a moderator nor owner of this list, so I will
deal with the administrative decision that is made in this regard my
own way, as will we all, and hope that something good comes of it.

I believe that the best "good" that can come from this discussion is
that all will realize what a treasure this list is, in its current
form, and that it is worth preserving as is.

That's my $40.00 worth ($0.02 in 1960 US money).

Mark Hull-Richter
CentOS Linux Software Developer
Registered Linux User #472807
- sign up at http://counter.li.org/
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Spike Turner 10-16-2008 05:21 PM

new list proposal - meaningless
 
Karanbir Singh wrote:

> Thats a bit of a dribveby waste of space post that does not
> really merit
> a reply from anyone. Also if that was something that
> concerns you so
> much, what have you done about it ?
>
> >
> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066154.html
>
> Johnny has been working on those.
>
> > If the CentOS devs don't have time to answer key
> questions such as
> > on the kernel but have time to consider fragmenting
> the mailing list
> > who wins/loses?
>
> What barriers did you run into when you tried to help with
> the situation
> and try to be a better member of the community ?
>

A driveby waste of space post was one by a certain Karanbir
telling someone to recklessly upgrade Gnome when this is supposed
to be an enterprise distro.

What do you mean barriers? I have perused through a few lists
and none of the the devs on other lists have an attitude like
yours. This is why I think this fragmentation of the mailing
lists is not to solve any "problem" other than that perceived
by those 17 foot tall with egos to match.

If people using CentOS are having problems e.g with the kernel
and the devs don't have time to respond to questions on the
list or on the forum, they don't have any extra sensory perception
powers to automagically know that Johnny is working on those do
they?

Spike.




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Karanbir Singh 10-16-2008 05:31 PM

new list proposal - meaningless
 
Spike Turner wrote:

A driveby waste of space post was one by a certain Karanbir
telling someone to recklessly upgrade Gnome when this is supposed
to be an enterprise distro.


Last time I checked, it was still a free world ? unless you live in the
US, in which case, all bets are off. And yes, I still maintain that its
your machine, you should have the full liberty to do whatever you like
with it.



If people using CentOS are having problems e.g with the kernel
and the devs don't have time to respond to questions on the
list or on the forum, they don't have any extra sensory perception
powers to automagically know that Johnny is working on those do
they?


you might want to look again, this issue has been raised and spoken
about quite a few times, in quite a few different media.

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Spiro Harvey 10-16-2008 08:48 PM

new list proposal - meaningless
 
> A driveby waste of space post was one by a certain Karanbir
> telling someone to recklessly upgrade Gnome when this is supposed
> to be an enterprise distro.

well, if they're running Gnome, then they're probably not using the
machine in an "enterprise" capacity. nobody in their right mind would
install X on a server.


--
Spiro Harvey Knossos Networks Ltd
021-295-1923 www.knossos.net.nz

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Scott Silva 10-16-2008 09:22 PM

new list proposal - meaningless
 
on 10-16-2008 1:48 PM Spiro Harvey spake the following:
>> A driveby waste of space post was one by a certain Karanbir
>> telling someone to recklessly upgrade Gnome when this is supposed
>> to be an enterprise distro.
>
> well, if they're running Gnome, then they're probably not using the
> machine in an "enterprise" capacity. nobody in their right mind would
> install X on a server.
>
There are also "Enterprise" desktops. Systems that are desired to be stable
over the life of the equipment, but still running X for whatever software it
requires.



--
MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't!!!!

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Frank Cox 10-16-2008 09:58 PM

new list proposal - meaningless
 
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:48:31 +1300
Spiro Harvey <spiro@knossos.net.nz> wrote:

> well, if they're running Gnome, then they're probably not using the
> machine in an "enterprise" capacity. nobody in their right mind would
> install X on a server.

*blink* I run a couple of Centos 5 application servers with several LTSP thin
clients that are used to create several papers, from database management to
creating plates for the press.

The folks there "live" on Gnome.

--
MELVILLE THEATRE ~ Melville Sask ~ http://www.melvilletheatre.com
DRY CLEANER BUSINESS FOR SALE ~ http://www.canadadrycleanerforsale.com
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Spike Turner 10-16-2008 10:24 PM

new list proposal - meaningless
 
Spiro Harvey wrote:

> well, if they're running Gnome, then they're
> probably not using the
> machine in an "enterprise" capacity. nobody in
> their right mind would
> install X on a server.
>

Really? What about SLED (Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop) or
Red Hat Enterprise Linux Desktop? Read something like
http://blogs.computerworld.com/which_linux_makes_the_best_business_windows_replac ement_desktop

When you hear of Linux migration what do you think that
encompasses? Moving from IIS to LAMP?

Spike.




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