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Old 06-19-2008, 12:11 PM
Chuck
 
Default Pulling Hair Out - TWiki 4.2 on CentOS 5

Once I build a system and bring it to our defined baseline, I rarely use rpm from that point forward...I custom roll almost everything -- especially apache. (red hat's layout makes my skin crawl) When did CPAN become so bad? It was the defacto standard and source of truth for perl modules 10 years ago. I trust CPAN over any rpm provided by red hat. Maybe things have changed, it has been several years since I got down and dirty with perl modules...


Anyway, problem is solved by changing perl -w to simply just perl. Since this system is buried behind 2 pix firewalls and only used for internal use Im not to concerned.

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 5:18 AM, Akemi Yagi <amyagi@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 2:50 AM, Ralph Angenendt <ra+centos@br-online.de> wrote:


> Chuck wrote:

>> I am using the CPAN version of CGI:

>

> But why? The perl package in CentOS provides CGI.



...And here is my favorite quote. *Jim Perrin explains why CPAN should

be avoided:



http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2007-February/075417.html



Akemi

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--
Chuck Carson - Sr. Systems Administrator
Northrop Grumman
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:41 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Pulling Hair Out - TWiki 4.2 on CentOS 5

Chuck wrote:

Once I build a system and bring it to our defined baseline, I rarely use rpm
from that point forward...I custom roll almost everything -- especially
apache. (red hat's layout makes my skin crawl) When did CPAN become so bad?
It was the defacto standard and source of truth for perl modules 10 years
ago. I trust CPAN over any rpm provided by red hat. Maybe things have
changed, it has been several years since I got down and dirty with perl
modules...


It isn't that CPAN is bad - after all, that's where the packaged
verisions originate too. It is that module features and dependencies
change over time and you need a consistent snapshot to work together.
When you install an RPM package it keeps the version and dependencies in
the RPM database and won't make changes that break any dependencies.
When you install via CPAN it sort-of figures things out during the
install but only for the perl portions and doesn't update your RPM
database so a subsequent 'yum update' will happily overwrite your CPAN
installed modules with something much older (just newer than the
previous RPM). If some other module needed the newer features, things
are now mysteriously broken. The fact that you can get away with this
at all indicates how compatible how backwards-compatible they try to
keep things in perl, but once in a while - ikely in the long lifespan of
Centos - there are some changes that will break things.


--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com


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Old 06-19-2008, 01:46 PM
 
Default Pulling Hair Out - TWiki 4.2 on CentOS 5

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:14:04 -0500
Chuck <chuck.carson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yea dude the red hat specific instructions are for a much older version
> of twiki.

1. Actually, they still work, the install instructions have not changed.
2. I use them to install twiki about 2 month ago, and it worked.

--
Thanks
http://www.911networks.com
When the network has to work
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Old 06-19-2008, 05:30 PM
MHR
 
Default Pulling Hair Out - TWiki 4.2 on CentOS 5

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 5:11 AM, Chuck <chuck.carson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Once I build a system and bring it to our defined baseline, I rarely use rpm
> from that point forward...I custom roll almost everything -- especially
> apache. (red hat's layout makes my skin crawl) When did CPAN become so bad?
> It was the defacto standard and source of truth for perl modules 10 years
> ago. I trust CPAN over any rpm provided by red hat. Maybe things have
> changed, it has been several years since I got down and dirty with perl
> modules...
>

If your distrust of Red Hat is so high, one has to wonder why you're
using CentOS at all.

No insult or deprecation intended, it's just that there are many Linux
options around, enough of them free.

Personally, I like the stability and reliability of CentOS (RHEL)
enough to put up with any inconveniences I have found so far.
Besides, the support on this list is sublime.

mhr
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Old 06-19-2008, 06:18 PM
Scott Silva
 
Default Pulling Hair Out - TWiki 4.2 on CentOS 5

on 6-19-2008 5:11 AM Chuck spake the following:


Once I build a system and bring it to our defined baseline, I rarely use
rpm from that point forward...I custom roll almost everything --
especially apache. (red hat's layout makes my skin crawl)


I'm curious then... why use it (RedHat)?
There are other options that would give you the control you want.


--
MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't!!!!

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Old 06-19-2008, 06:20 PM
Scott Silva
 
Default Pulling Hair Out - TWiki 4.2 on CentOS 5

on 6-19-2008 6:46 AM centos@911networks.com spake the
following:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:14:04 -0500
Chuck <chuck.carson@gmail.com> wrote:


Yea dude the red hat specific instructions are for a much older version
of twiki.


1. Actually, they still work, the install instructions have not changed.
2. I use them to install twiki about 2 month ago, and it worked.

Maybe they don't work if you hack the heart out of RedHat and replace with a
different one first.



--
MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't!!!!

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Old 06-21-2008, 05:01 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Pulling Hair Out - TWiki 4.2 on CentOS 5

MHR wrote:

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 5:11 AM, Chuck <chuck.carson@gmail.com> wrote:

Once I build a system and bring it to our defined baseline, I rarely use rpm
from that point forward...I custom roll almost everything -- especially
apache. (red hat's layout makes my skin crawl) When did CPAN become so bad?
It was the defacto standard and source of truth for perl modules 10 years
ago. I trust CPAN over any rpm provided by red hat. Maybe things have
changed, it has been several years since I got down and dirty with perl
modules...



If your distrust of Red Hat is so high, one has to wonder why you're
using CentOS at all.


Depending on how far back you go, the approach may or may not be
warranted. If you used anything before RH7.3 you were pretty much
forced to roll your own apache/perl to get a working mod_perl. The
stock version finally was built right in RH7.3, then broken again in 8.0
until something much later, not sure if it was RHEL3 or 4 - or maybe it
was broken different in each of those and fixed in updates. As I recall
the main symptom of the stock one was that it leaked memory whenever a
perl page was updated, but there may have been other things wrong too.



No insult or deprecation intended, it's just that there are many Linux
options around, enough of them free.


I'm not sure if any of them got mod_perl right, and since
apache/perl/CPAN are relatively easy to replace it wouldn't be worth
switching for.



Personally, I like the stability and reliability of CentOS (RHEL)
enough to put up with any inconveniences I have found so far.
Besides, the support on this list is sublime.


I have to agree - for several years there have been few surprises.
However, many commonly needed perl modules aren't in the stock repo so
if you use applications like twiki, RT, MimeDefang, etc. you were forced
to use CPAN until Rpmforge and EPEL added them. (And java stuff is even
worse...).


--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com

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