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Old 05-19-2008, 07:51 PM
"Matt Sturtz"
 
Default Opening of the Wiki - Part I

Hi Ralph, et al--

As a noob (to this list, not to CentOS and definatly not to Linux), I
thought I'd throw in my .002... I joined this list because I was
following the directions on the wiki for contributing -- after asking
around on IRC, I wasn't able to find any help in customizing centos-5 (for
Kickstart), and ended up hacking on it until I figured it all out... I
was going to write up some docs for the wiki, but haven't had time yet
(and in general I like to lurk on a mailing list prior to posting to it
:-).

> b) Opening up the wiki
>
> We had some more or less internal talks about that on Fosdem and via
mail and on IRC. While the situation we have at the moment keeps
spammers away, it also keeps away people who would like to edit stuff on
the wiki or just correct an error on the page, as they have to create an
account, subscribe to this mailing list *and* get access to pages they
want to edit or correct.
>
> Opening up the wiki completely does mean, that we will have to deal with
spam, so we need an active Editor Group for the wiki - people who get
mails for each page which has changed (maybe even for comments, see
above) and check that against our (nonwritten) policy.

I'm very much in favor of opening up the wiki, as long as the mods/eds
keep tabs on every change (perhapps changes can be moderated, so they are
reviewed before going live?). I would be willing to contribute in this
capacity from time to time (but don't expect 8hrs a day :-). There should
be a balance to ensure that as much accurate information is available as
possible (which the current situation is far from -- probably due in part
to the work involved in getting access to write things up) while at the
same time carefully preserving the accuracy and completeness of those
pages that are available (no information is more desireable than wrong
information).

I think that if you require a real user (no anonymous) with a captcha and
an email cookie, you'll block out almost 100% of the spam. Karanbir
already hit on this -- good. Then you just have to worry about things
like people editing a page to ask a question inline, people posting wrong
or misleading information, etc. Those are easy problems to solve with a
good mod/ed staff. :-)

-Matt-

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Old 05-20-2008, 12:54 PM
"John"
 
Default Opening of the Wiki - Part I

-----Original Message-----
From: centos-docs-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-docs-bounces@centos.org]
On Behalf Of Ned Slider
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 2:53 PM
To: Mail list for wiki articles
Subject: Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the Wiki - Part I

Ralph Angenendt wrote:

>
> b) Opening up the wiki

Not such a good idea...Hope you have a good spam filter in mind.

> Opening up the wiki completely does mean, that we will have to deal
> with spam

Maybe more than the CentOS Project is willing to handle. I do understand the
true "Wiki Nature", that it is to be open to all that want to participate in
it. (the general public)

> I'd like to have your opinion on both things - comments and the
> opening of the wiki - an if you want to be in that Editor team, you
> can also raise your hand now ...

I could commit time to it on the weekends, the same thing I said for the
HowTOs

>I would certainly agree to moderate pages I have created and/or currently
maintain, but I wouldn't want to
>commit myself to being a site wide moderator of content

Aggree..I would like for the Authors name and Co-Authored names to remain on
the article they have written.


JohnStanley

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Old 05-20-2008, 01:36 PM
Ralph Angenendt
 
Default Opening of the Wiki - Part I

Welcome >

Matt Sturtz wrote:
> I'm very much in favor of opening up the wiki, as long as the mods/eds
> keep tabs on every change (perhapps changes can be moderated, so they are
> reviewed before going live?).

MoinMoin isn't able to do that without patching the code (which I don't
really want to/can do) - that idea had crossed my mind, yes.

> I would be willing to contribute in this capacity from time to time
> (but don't expect 8hrs a day :-).

That's why I'm opting for an editorial team, possibly in several time
zones, so the load can be spread.

> I think that if you require a real user (no anonymous) with a captcha
> and an email cookie, you'll block out almost 100% of the spam.

My favourite still is: Create a user, send us a mail (in which you have
to agree to putting your content under the CC license anyway) and then
one of the editorial team puts your accountname into the EditGroup.

Captchas are broken already, those don't keep spammers away anymore.

Cheers,

Ralph
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Old 05-20-2008, 01:39 PM
Ralph Angenendt
 
Default Opening of the Wiki - Part I

Let me guess: "RE: " instead of "Re: ", strange message format, broken
quoting: You are using Outlook!

John wrote:
>> b) Opening up the wiki
>
> Not such a good idea...Hope you have a good spam filter in mind.
>
>> Opening up the wiki completely does mean, that we will have to deal
>> with spam
>
> Maybe more than the CentOS Project is willing to handle. I do understand the
> true "Wiki Nature", that it is to be open to all that want to participate in
> it. (the general public)

As said: We would still require people to send us a mail before they can
go crazy on the wiki.

> I could commit time to it on the weekends, the same thing I said for the
> HowTOs

Good.

> Aggree..I would like for the Authors name and Co-Authored names to remain on
> the article they have written.

Different discussion ...

Cheers,

Ralph
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Old 05-20-2008, 02:12 PM
Ned Slider
 
Default Opening of the Wiki - Part I

Ralph Angenendt wrote:



I think that if you require a real user (no anonymous) with a captcha
and an email cookie, you'll block out almost 100% of the spam.


My favourite still is: Create a user, send us a mail (in which you have
to agree to putting your content under the CC license anyway) and then
one of the editorial team puts your accountname into the EditGroup.



That should block the vast majority of spam, shouldn't it?

The one thing it maybe doesn't address it *comment* spam, but I see that
as far less disruptive than spam pages or spam entered into existing
pages. I'm trying to get a feel for the overall level of work that we
may be committing ourselves to.


Captchas are broken already, those don't keep spammers away anymore.


Cheers,

Ralph


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Old 05-20-2008, 10:59 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default Opening of the Wiki - Part I

R P Herrold wrote:
I concur that subscribing to changes should be open to all known site
registrants -- but such notification subscriptions have NEVER worked for
me, despite a couple debugging attempts, so, who knows if it is really
useful.


It's worked for me pretty much since the wiki started, and looking at
the maillogs I see plenty of emails being sent out to your email address
as well. Are you not getting those emails ? Perhaps a mail system issue
at your end, since they are definitely being delivered to your mail server.



I agree. I still agree with myself one year ago:


subscribe to the Changelog is orthogonal to edit rights (the seeming
topic of your quoted prior post) -- what are you agreeing to?


I think the point is that if someone wants to 'take charge' or a page,
they should subscribe to the changelog and when other people make edits
keep an eye on those edits.


BTW, I dont really consider your 4 lines ( not half ) of the Java page
to be any real contribution to the wiki. The Wiki isnt really a link
pool or a content directory. It should be the main content source.


--
Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : 2522219@icq

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Old 05-21-2008, 03:45 AM
"John"
 
Default Opening of the Wiki - Part I

-----Original Message-----
From: centos-docs-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-docs-bounces@centos.org]
On Behalf Of Ralph Angenendt
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:40 AM
To: centos-docs@centos.org
Subject: Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the Wiki - Part I

Let me guess: "RE: " instead of "Re: ", strange message format, broken
quoting: You are using Outlook!

Sure am for now..Not on a *nix machine today. I find that evolution does me
100 times better...pine & alpine to.


> Aggree..I would like for the Authors name and Co-Authored names to
> remain on the article they have written.

[[[Different discussion ...]]]?

Lets discuss. I'm kinda sure the author or authors, same as me would like
there name on it somehow or another. Now this is a whole different story for
articles that are no longer maintained by the original author. Just as an
equal opertunity that the centos "core members" would want there name on
updated packages. IE "The Package Builder".

Example: Author writes the article. Authors article gets edited for
punctuation by someone other than the original author (s) and then is
credited for writing the article. There in my opinion needs someway of
keeping the credation of the origional article. Unless it is not maintained
by the original author any more.
-------------------------
Cheers,

Ralph
-------------------------
JohnStanley

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Old 05-21-2008, 08:23 AM
Ralph Angenendt
 
Default Opening of the Wiki - Part I

John wrote:

> Lets discuss. I'm kinda sure the author or authors, same as me would like
> there name on it somehow or another. Now this is a whole different story for
> articles that are no longer maintained by the original author. Just as an
> equal opertunity that the centos "core members" would want there name on
> updated packages. IE "The Package Builder".
>
> Example: Author writes the article. Authors article gets edited for
> punctuation by someone other than the original author (s) and then is
> credited for writing the article. There in my opinion needs someway of
> keeping the credation of the origional article. Unless it is not maintained
> by the original author any more.

Then put your name somewhere in the article. Moin only handles "last
changed by" which is what you see on the bottom of the page. "Problem"
solved.

Cheers,

Ralph
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:00 PM
"John"
 
Default Opening of the Wiki - Part I

-----Original Message-----
From: centos-docs-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-docs-bounces@centos.org]
On Behalf Of Ralph Angenendt
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:23 AM
To: centos-docs@centos.org
Subject: Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the Wiki - Part I

John wrote:

> Lets discuss. I'm kinda sure the author or authors, same as me would
> like there name on it somehow or another. Now this is a whole
> different story for articles that are no longer maintained by the
> original author. Just as an equal opertunity that the centos "core
> members" would want there name on updated packages. IE "The Package
Builder".
>
> Example: Author writes the article. Authors article gets edited for
> punctuation by someone other than the original author (s) and then is
> credited for writing the article. There in my opinion needs someway of
> keeping the credation of the origional article. Unless it is not
> maintained by the original author any more.

Then put your name somewhere in the article. Moin only handles "last changed
by" which is what you see on the bottom of the page. "Problem"
solved.

Cheers,

Ralph
-----------------------
Cool will work! :-)

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Old 05-29-2008, 09:30 AM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default Opening of the Wiki - Part I

John wrote:
> Just as an
> equal opertunity that the centos "core members" would want there name on
> updated packages. IE "The Package Builder".

umm.... not true.

We dont have Packager set on any CentOS4/5 rpms anymore - anything that
comes through the buildsystem does not have that. We used to set that a
few years back, so we could track buildroots and logs etc, and work out
what machine was used for what and who was responsible for the package.

I dont mind plastering my name all over the rpms, but CentOS isnt my
project and we work within a community of people / developers / users /
abusers / moaners.

If people want to get the name of who wrote what, all edits are
attributed to sources, much like any other wiki is like wikipedia etc


--
Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : 2522219@icq
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