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Old 04-21-2012, 09:15 PM
Ed Heron
 
Default http://www.centos.org/docs

On Sat, 2012-04-21 at 16:05 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> ...
> But, most of it can be automated isnt it ? and the docs are only ever
> updated once every 6 to 8 months. Its more of a case of someone taking
> the task up, and spending the day or two needed to get to grips with
> whats involved and doing 1 doc. We can then scale up the effort from
> there. Breaking inertia is key.

I would say the RHEL docs are a starting point. The first step is to
remove the RHEL logos and such. The next step is to change the pieces
that don't apply and add any sections for stuff that isn't close. At
that point, the docs become an animal completely separate from the RHEL
docs.

Future RHEL docs would then have to be diff'd to discover what changes
they've made and decide if we wish to add their changes to CentOS docs.

I can fantasize that RHEL might even check out our docs and see if any
of our changes are worth adding back into their docs.


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Old 04-21-2012, 09:39 PM
"Paul R. (Crunch)"
 
Default http://www.centos.org/docs

On 04/21/2012 12:05 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> On 04/20/2012 10:24 PM, Crunch wrote:
>> I thought that might be. Thanks for clearing that up. The other
>> possibility was that a "new" license included some extra constraints but
>> I wasn't to sure if that was allowed. Instead of trying to find the
>> answer in the license itself, I thought it would be simpler to ask, and
>> it was.
> the biggest constrain from our perspective is that those docs are for
> RHEL not CentOS. And we dont want the messaging to be 'CentOS is RHEL,
> but free'. As Ed pointed out somethings are different in the way we do
> mirrors and installer etc, support options are different and the way
> some of the code works in the distro is different as well. So while its
> ok to say that CentOS should work like whats in the doc, we need enough
> adaption to make it clear were not saying CentOS == RHEL.

Okay. It may be easiest then just to knock something off and see if it
is agreeable. The question is how much different is different enough.
I'm guessing this has been covered before. In any case the current docs
can be used as a point of departure.

I do have something I would like you to look at, but I'm not sure
sending it to the list is a good idea. The file is 2MB odd. You can
download it here: http://www.4shared.com/folder/trOCQ_x3/shared.html

Once you've decompressed the archive, point your browser at:

docs.redhat.com.adapted/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html-single/6.0_Release_Notes/index.html

You can run the following command on this file to get an idea of the
context in which the word CentOS is used and where it replaced the old
name:

egrep -oi 'centos.{0,40}' index.html

There are some cases where 'CentOS' and the surrounding text should be
removed such as when support is mentioned.

...
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:52 PM
"Paul R. (Crunch)"
 
Default http://www.centos.org/docs

On 04/21/2012 06:39 PM, Paul R. (Crunch) wrote:
> On 04/21/2012 12:05 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
>> On 04/20/2012 10:24 PM, Crunch wrote:
>>> I thought that might be. Thanks for clearing that up. The other
>>> possibility was that a "new" license included some extra constraints
>>> but
>>> I wasn't to sure if that was allowed. Instead of trying to find the
>>> answer in the license itself, I thought it would be simpler to ask, and
>>> it was.
>> the biggest constrain from our perspective is that those docs are for
>> RHEL not CentOS. And we dont want the messaging to be 'CentOS is RHEL,
>> but free'. As Ed pointed out somethings are different in the way we do
>> mirrors and installer etc, support options are different and the way
>> some of the code works in the distro is different as well. So while its
>> ok to say that CentOS should work like whats in the doc, we need enough
>> adaption to make it clear were not saying CentOS == RHEL.
>
> Okay. It may be easiest then just to knock something off and see if it
> is agreeable. The question is how much different is different enough.
> I'm guessing this has been covered before. In any case the current
> docs can be used as a point of departure.
>
> I do have something I would like you to look at, but I'm not sure
> sending it to the list is a good idea. The file is 2MB odd. You can
> download it here: http://www.4shared.com/folder/trOCQ_x3/shared.html
>
> Once you've decompressed the archive, point your browser at:
>
> docs.redhat.com.adapted/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html-single/6.0_Release_Notes/index.html
>
>
> You can run the following command on this file to get an idea of the
> context in which the word CentOS is used and where it replaced the old
> name:
>
> egrep -oi 'centos.{0,40}' index.html
>
> There are some cases where 'CentOS' and the surrounding text should be
> removed such as when support is mentioned.
>
> ...

I do apologize but something occurred to me and I have deleted the file
from the share. The document breaks the license agreement in its current
form so distributing it is probably not a good idea. What should we do?
Send it to one person? I think I'll fix the bits that aren't right and
put it back later. Will let you know.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:35 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default http://www.centos.org/docs

On 04/21/2012 10:52 PM, Paul R. (Crunch) wrote:
> I do apologize but something occurred to me and I have deleted the file
> from the share. The document breaks the license agreement in its current
> form so distributing it is probably not a good idea. What should we do?
> Send it to one person? I think I'll fix the bits that aren't right and
> put it back later. Will let you know.

I'll setup a resource in .centos.org space that allows us ( and whoever
wants to join the effort ) the ability to collaborate and share files.
details in personal email, early on Monday morning

--
Karanbir Singh
+44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh
ICQ: 2522219 | Yahoo IM: z00dax | Gtalk: z00dax
GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:38 PM
Ed Heron
 
Default http://www.centos.org/docs

On Sat, 2012-04-21 at 23:35 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> ...
> I'll setup a resource in .centos.org space that allows us ( and whoever
> wants to join the effort ) the ability to collaborate and share files.
> details in personal email, early on Monday morning
>

Some sort of revision control system would be nice.

Is it possible to export a set of pages from the wiki into a pdf or
e-pub format?

Having the wiki and docs go to my kindle when they are changed would
be pretty cool.


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Old 04-22-2012, 12:29 AM
"Paul R. (Crunch)"
 
Default http://www.centos.org/docs

On 04/21/2012 08:38 PM, Ed Heron wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-04-21 at 23:35 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
>> ...
>> I'll setup a resource in .centos.org space that allows us ( and whoever
>> wants to join the effort ) the ability to collaborate and share files.
>> details in personal email, early on Monday morning
>>
>
> Some sort of revision control system would be nice.

That's not a bad idea. Something like CVS.

>
> Is it possible to export a set of pages from the wiki into a pdf or
> e-pub format?

I don't see why not. It should be easy enough to run some conversion
utility on the finished HTML docs. Although it'll probably take some
tweaking.



>
> Having the wiki and docs go to my kindle when they are changed would
> be pretty cool.
>

True enough.


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Old 04-22-2012, 12:56 AM
Ed Heron
 
Default http://www.centos.org/docs

On Sat, 2012-04-21 at 21:29 -0300, Paul R. (Crunch) wrote:
> ...On 04/21/2012 08:38 PM, Ed Heron wrote:
> > On Sat, 2012-04-21 at 23:35 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> >> ...
> >> I'll setup a resource in .centos.org space that allows us ( and whoever
> >> wants to join the effort ) the ability to collaborate and share files.
> >> details in personal email, early on Monday morning
> >>
> >
> > Some sort of revision control system would be nice.
>
> That's not a bad idea. Something like CVS.

The wiki has the equivalent of a revision control.

> > Is it possible to export a set of pages from the wiki into a pdf or
> > e-pub format?
>
> I don't see why not. It should be easy enough to run some conversion
> utility on the finished HTML docs. Although it'll probably take some
> tweaking.

It'd be better to pull the raw page(s) and build the book from that.

> > Having the wiki and docs go to my kindle when they are changed would
> > be pretty cool.
> >
>
> True enough.

There is already a subscription to changes feature of the wiki. It'd
be interesting if the page could prepared and mailed with the
notification.


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Old 04-22-2012, 09:05 AM
Johnny Hughes
 
Default http://www.centos.org/docs

On 04/21/2012 04:15 PM, Ed Heron wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-04-21 at 16:05 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
>> ...
>> But, most of it can be automated isnt it ? and the docs are only ever
>> updated once every 6 to 8 months. Its more of a case of someone taking
>> the task up, and spending the day or two needed to get to grips with
>> whats involved and doing 1 doc. We can then scale up the effort from
>> there. Breaking inertia is key.
>
> I would say the RHEL docs are a starting point. The first step is to
> remove the RHEL logos and such. The next step is to change the pieces
> that don't apply and add any sections for stuff that isn't close. At
> that point, the docs become an animal completely separate from the RHEL
> docs.
>
> Future RHEL docs would then have to be diff'd to discover what changes
> they've made and decide if we wish to add their changes to CentOS docs.
>
> I can fantasize that RHEL might even check out our docs and see if any
> of our changes are worth adding back into their docs.

One thing to be very careful of is to meet all the licensing
requirements to change to documents.

The earlier documents were not allowed to be changed ... see this link:

http://www.centos.org/docs/4/4.5/rhel-ig-x8664-multi-en-4/ln-id2778852.html

The newer documentation is not licensed that way, but like this:

"The text of and illustrations in this document are licensed by Red Hat
under a Creative Commons Attribution–Share Alike 3.0 Unported license
("CC-BY-SA"). An explanation of CC-BY-SA is available at
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/. In accordance with
CC-BY-SA, if you distribute this document or an adaptation of it, you
must provide the URL for the original version."

That would mean that people should look at each individual license of
any documentation .. and in this case, one should be able to make
changes and just point to the original.

We should likely make the changes in some kind of Version Control System
... git seems to be the best to use now.

Then people can see what is changed from the original at any point in
time ... and we might be able to more easily change updated versions in
the future.


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Old 04-22-2012, 08:14 PM
Ralph Angenendt
 
Default http://www.centos.org/docs

On 22.04.2012 01:38, Ed Heron wrote:

> Is it possible to export a set of pages from the wiki into a pdf or
> e-pub format?

AFAIK the only possibility is docbook.

Cheers,

Ralph
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:00 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default http://www.centos.org/docs

On 04/22/2012 12:38 AM, Ed Heron wrote:
> Is it possible to export a set of pages from the wiki into a pdf or
> e-pub format?

yes, that should be possible - but would need a bit of coding around it.
I am happy to investigate.

the good thing about moin is that each page can be loaded into pyhon as
an object, and then rendered in various formats. So that might be one
route to take. Alternatively the text content is also available in raw
format, so that might work too.

> Having the wiki and docs go to my kindle when they are changed would
> be pretty cool.

Can get noisy though.


--
Karanbir Singh
+44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh
ICQ: 2522219 | Yahoo IM: z00dax | Gtalk: z00dax
GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc
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