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Old 10-09-2010, 12:35 AM
Bob Stine
 
Default Suggestion for "how to" section: easy way to install the JDK?

Milos Blazivec wrote:
... I am, in fact, interested in making adjustments to the Wiki*page - but sadly not the ones you proposed Bob, since the just won't do*the trick.
Hmm. *I ran the executed the bin file, edited /etc/profile so that PATH included the "bin" directory of the sun jdk directory, added environment variable JDK_HOME, *deleted the /usr/bin/java symlink from java -> /etc/alternative/java, and everything works, or at least well enough for me to run the Eclipse C++ IDE, which was my goal. *
Maybe adding the jdk was
unnecessary for Eclipse to work?
Could you unpack "just won't do", or point to a discussion of the issue?
Thanks. ---
Bob Stine
bob@waltonstine.net* (703) 217-4784 Rule for living: What Would Clint Eastwood Do?



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Old 10-09-2010, 01:33 AM
Milos Blazevic
 
Default Suggestion for "how to" section: easy way to install the JDK?

Bob Stine wrote:
> Milos Blazivec wrote:
>
> /... I am, in fact, interested in making adjustments to the Wiki /
> /page - but sadly not the ones you proposed Bob, since the just
> won't do /
> /the trick./
>
>
> Hmm. I ran the executed the bin file, edited /etc/profile so that
> PATH included the "bin" directory of the sun jdk directory, added
> environment variable JDK_HOME, deleted the /usr/bin/java symlink from
> java -> /etc/alternative/java, and everything works, or at least well
> enough for me to run the Eclipse C++ IDE, which was my goal.
>
> Maybe adding the jdk was unnecessary for Eclipse to work?
>
> Could you unpack "just won't do", or point to a discussion of the issue?
>
> Thanks.
> ---
> Bob Stine
> bob@waltonstine.net <mailto:bob@waltonstine.net> (703) 217-4784
> /Rule for living: What Would Clint Eastwood Do?/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS-docs mailing list
> CentOS-docs@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
>
What I meant is that the instructions you suggested in your first e-mail
are taken from:
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/install-linux-64-rpm-138254.html
and are all but comprehenssive, let alone appropriate for beginners.
These installation instructions have been accompanying Sun Java as long
as I can remember, and "strangely", no one cared to mention 'em in the
Wiki page... don't you think that's kinda odd? I don't - 'cause they
don't work!

This second part (editing /etc/profiles, deleting symlinks and editing
PATH...) is NOT what you mentioned in your first e-mail. However, in my
honest oppinion, this is still not the correct way to do this.

What you did, is that you probably got it to work for Your particular
purpose by resorting to an unconventional method (i.e. circumvent the
mechanism intended for this purpose, rather than a by-the-book
approach). By solving the problem this way, sooner or later you'll end
up breaking something. Maintainance may prove difficult later

For me, by-the-book is using "alternatives" utility for this purpose -
intended by the makers way to handle this kind of issues. (switching
between different mail servers, etc.)

Better idea is to adjust symlink to point to the desired binary, rather
than editing PATH variable, deleting the symlink,...

Eclipse has got nothing to do with all this...

--
***Milos Blazevic*
Cert. No: 805010564450148
Email: milos.blazevic@sbb.rs <mailto:milos.blazevic@sbb.rs>
Tel: 064/301 45 78
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Old 10-09-2010, 07:32 AM
Manuel Wolfshant
 
Default Suggestion for "how to" section: easy way to install the JDK?

On 10/09/2010 04:33 AM, Milos Blazevic wrote:
> Bob Stine wrote:
>
>> Milos Blazivec wrote:
>>
>> /... I am, in fact, interested in making adjustments to the Wiki /
>> /page - but sadly not the ones you proposed Bob, since the just
>> won't do /
>> /the trick./
>>
>>
>> Hmm. I ran the executed the bin file, edited /etc/profile so that
>> PATH included the "bin" directory of the sun jdk directory, added
>> environment variable JDK_HOME, deleted the /usr/bin/java symlink from
>> java -> /etc/alternative/java, and everything works, or at least well
>> enough for me to run the Eclipse C++ IDE, which was my goal.
>>
>> Maybe adding the jdk was unnecessary for Eclipse to work?
>>
>> Could you unpack "just won't do", or point to a discussion of the issue?
>>
>>
> What I meant is that the instructions you suggested in your first e-mail
> are taken from:
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/install-linux-64-rpm-138254.html
> and are all but comprehenssive, let alone appropriate for beginners.
> These installation instructions have been accompanying Sun Java as long
> as I can remember, and "strangely", no one cared to mention 'em in the
> Wiki page... don't you think that's kinda odd? I don't - 'cause they
> don't work!
>
> This second part (editing /etc/profiles, deleting symlinks and editing
> PATH...) is NOT what you mentioned in your first e-mail. However, in my
> honest oppinion, this is still not the correct way to do this.
>
> What you did, is that you probably got it to work for Your particular
> purpose by resorting to an unconventional method (i.e. circumvent the
> mechanism intended for this purpose, rather than a by-the-book
> approach). By solving the problem this way, sooner or later you'll end
> up breaking something. Maintainance may prove difficult later
>
> For me, by-the-book is using "alternatives" utility for this purpose -
> intended by the makers way to handle this kind of issues. (switching
> between different mail servers, etc.)
>

Using alternatives in the context of Java is 100% useless for ordinary
users who do not want to use the stock gcj or openjdk packages ( and
therefore replace them with Sun's packages). As far as I have seen on
the few hundreds workstations that I maintain + the requests in the IRC
channel, users only need to run
- browser java plugin ( solved by installing Sun's jre + a convenient
ln -s already mentioned before in this thread
- java ( the binary, as in " java -Xmx400m -DuseDesktop=true
-Dsun.java2d.pmoffscreen=false -jar /usr/share/jalbum/JAlbum.jar ") in
order to run .jar applications
- the libs needed by Eclipse, also mentioned before in the thread
> Better idea is to adjust symlink to point to the desired binary, rather
> than editing PATH variable, deleting the symlink,...
>

At least the jre package (and I am almost sure jdk too) from Sun comes
with the following structure:
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Apr 10 01:25 default -> /usr/java/latest
drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:34 jre1.6.0_20
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Jun 28 23:35 latest -> /usr/java/jre1.6.0_20

Using /usr/java/latest and / or /usr/java/default in your scripts makes
them immune to upgrades, as long as you stick with Sun's packages (
which - sad but true - make the java-openjdk / gcj packages useless and
offer ( for the moment ) better compatibility with the real world. At
least from I where I stand.

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Old 10-09-2010, 09:47 AM
Ned Slider
 
Default Suggestion for "how to" section: easy way to install the JDK?

On 09/10/10 08:32, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:

<snip>

>
> At least the jre package (and I am almost sure jdk too) from Sun comes
> with the following structure:
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Apr 10 01:25 default -> /usr/java/latest
> drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:34 jre1.6.0_20
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Jun 28 23:35 latest -> /usr/java/jre1.6.0_20
>
> Using /usr/java/latest and / or /usr/java/default in your scripts makes
> them immune to upgrades, as long as you stick with Sun's packages (
> which - sad but true - make the java-openjdk / gcj packages useless and
> offer ( for the moment ) better compatibility with the real world. At
> least from I where I stand.
>

Are these redistributable? I'm sure they are as Red Hat has Sun's Java
packages on it's
RHEL Supplementary disk for RHEL5 which it (re)distributes to customers.

In which case why doesn't someone just repackage these and stick them in
CentOS Extras/rpmforge or somewhere and the problem largely goes away.
Or am I missing something?

If we had decent packages that Just Worked, we wouldn't need convoluted
documentation on how to install Java.

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Old 10-10-2010, 12:59 AM
Manuel Wolfshant
 
Default Suggestion for "how to" section: easy way to install the JDK?

On 10/09/2010 12:47 PM, Ned Slider wrote:
> On 09/10/10 08:32, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> At least the jre package (and I am almost sure jdk too) from Sun comes
>> with the following structure:
>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Apr 10 01:25 default -> /usr/java/latest
>> drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:34 jre1.6.0_20
>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Jun 28 23:35 latest -> /usr/java/jre1.6.0_20
>>
>> Using /usr/java/latest and / or /usr/java/default in your scripts makes
>> them immune to upgrades, as long as you stick with Sun's packages (
>> which - sad but true - make the java-openjdk / gcj packages useless and
>> offer ( for the moment ) better compatibility with the real world. At
>> least from I where I stand.
>>
>>
>
> Are these redistributable? I'm sure they are as Red Hat has Sun's Java
> packages on it's
> RHEL Supplementary disk for RHEL5 which it (re)distributes to customers.
>
>
As Russ has said, they are not.
> In which case why doesn't someone just repackage these and stick them in
> CentOS Extras/rpmforge or somewhere and the problem largely goes away.
> Or am I missing something?
>
Yup, you miss the fact that RH [ probably ] has agreements which allow
them to redistribute some binary-only packages (even flash player) via a
special channel to their customers.
> If we had decent packages that Just Worked, we wouldn't need convoluted
> documentation on how to install Java.
>
Indeed. Unfortunately we are not there. Not yet.
However a 3 steps procedure ( 1) download from Sun; 2) install rpm 3)
create a symlink for your browser ) is not that bad, given the previous
options that we had.
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