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Manuel Wolfshant 08-17-2012 11:20 AM

please add vnconfig to minimal install CD
 
On 08/17/2012 12:09 PM, Matthew Patton wrote:
> per http://wiki.centos.org/Manuals/ReleaseNotes/CentOSMinimalCD6.3
>
> <quote>
> The aim of this disk is to install a CentOS 6.3 system which has a minimum
> of packages needed to have a functional system, with no compromise
> regarding security and fully network and yum aware
> </quote>
>
> Which is quite funny since vconfig didn't get included which is WAY more
> common and important than FCoE and some other bits...
>
> Can someone please update the package list?
It's been quite a long time since vconfig is not needed. Use the
following command instead:

ip link add dev ${DEVICE} link ${PHYSDEV} type vlan id ${VID}
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Manuel Wolfshant 08-17-2012 11:37 AM

please add vnconfig to minimal install CD
 
On 08/17/2012 12:28 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
>
> afaict, vconfig was included in the past due to the fake dep that dracut
> had on vconfig ( although it wasent doing anything with it ); since that
> bug got fixed vconfig seems to have been dropped.
>
> If you want to see it added in, I am sure it can be - there is plenty of
> disk space left still on the minimal iso. Go ahead and open a report for
> this and tag it 6.4-QA
As I have said before, there is no need for it:

[wolfy@wolfy ~]$ grep vconfig /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/*

[wolfy@wolfy ~]$ grep vlan /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/*
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifdown-eth: || echo ${DEVICE} |
LANG=C egrep -q 'vlan[0-9][0-9]?[0-9]?[0-9]?' ; then
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifdown-eth: [ -f
/proc/net/vlan/${DEVICE} ] && {
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifdown-eth: ip link delete
${DEVICE} type vlan
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup: MATCH='^vlan[0-9]{1,4}?'
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup: VID=$(echo "${DEVICE}" |
LC_ALL=C sed 's/^vlan0*//')
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup: # PHYSDEV should be set in
ifcfg-vlan* file
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup: if [ ! -d /proc/net/vlan ]; then
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup: if [ ! -f
/proc/net/vlan/${DEVICE} ]; then
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup: ip link add dev ${DEVICE}
link ${PHYSDEV} type vlan id ${VID} ${FLAG_REORDER_HDR} || {
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup: $"ERROR: could not
add vlan ${VID} as ${DEVICE} on dev ${PHYSDEV}" &)&
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup: net_log $"ERROR: could
not add vlan ${VID} as ${DEVICE} on dev ${PHYSDEV}"

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"Matthew Patton" 08-17-2012 01:03 PM

please add vnconfig to minimal install CD
 
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 07:37:25 -0400, Manuel Wolfshant
<wolfy@nobugconsulting.ro> wrote:

>> If you want to see it added in, I am sure it can be - there is plenty of
>> disk space left still on the minimal iso. Go ahead and open a report for
>> this and tag it 6.4-QA
> As I have said before, there is no need for it:

ok, fair enough. But I've *NEVER* used the "ip add dev" command syntax.
And I would hazard pretty much nobody else has either.

There are a skillion shell scripts for KVM/QEMU, Xen, embedded firewalls,
etc. that use 'vconfig' because that's how it's been done for ages. Sure,
we'd like everybody to go back and rewrite their scripts but I don't see
that happening any time soon.

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Manuel Wolfshant 08-17-2012 01:16 PM

please add vnconfig to minimal install CD
 
On 08/17/2012 04:03 PM, Matthew Patton wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 07:37:25 -0400, Manuel Wolfshant
> <wolfy@nobugconsulting.ro> wrote:
>
>>> If you want to see it added in, I am sure it can be - there is plenty of
>>> disk space left still on the minimal iso. Go ahead and open a report for
>>> this and tag it 6.4-QA
>> As I have said before, there is no need for it:
> ok, fair enough. But I've *NEVER* used the "ip add dev" command syntax.
> And I would hazard pretty much nobody else has either.
I did use it for several years. I learned about its vlan capabilities
only a couple of months ago though.


> There are a skillion shell scripts for KVM/QEMU, Xen, embedded firewalls,
> etc. that use 'vconfig' because that's how it's been done for ages.

I doubt that those people use the minimal.iso. I for one would use
(actually I DO use ) a pxe server with kickstart files adjusted as
needed. But that's just me. And if they do use the minimal.iso, I bet
that they have to add another package or two in order to fulfil the
purpose of the said server[s]. By itself a minimal install does not do
much except routing. Adding another package when needed is not that
hard, is it ?


> Sure,
> we'd like everybody to go back and rewrite their scripts but I don't see
> that happening any time soon.
>
I see no reason to have people rewrite their scripts and I have no
intent to enforce that on anyone.
The only question I ask is "what did they do before the summer of 2011
when minimal.iso was launched " ?


On a more personal note, so far only two persons (that I know of ) asked
for vconfig to be put back. You over here and another person during a
casual talk in #centos-social ( and that person was happy to learn that
ip does that job and switched to using it )

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Karanbir Singh 08-17-2012 01:28 PM

please add vnconfig to minimal install CD
 
On 08/17/2012 02:03 PM, Matthew Patton wrote:
> There are a skillion shell scripts for KVM/QEMU, Xen, embedded firewalls,
> etc. that use 'vconfig' because that's how it's been done for ages.

Could you point at some of these that are in wide use ?

- KB
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"James A. Peltier" 08-17-2012 06:05 PM

please add vnconfig to minimal install CD
 
----- Original Message -----
| On 08/17/2012 04:03 PM, Matthew Patton wrote:
| > On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 07:37:25 -0400, Manuel Wolfshant
| > <wolfy@nobugconsulting.ro> wrote:
| >
| >>> If you want to see it added in, I am sure it can be - there is
| >>> plenty of
| >>> disk space left still on the minimal iso. Go ahead and open a
| >>> report for
| >>> this and tag it 6.4-QA
| >> As I have said before, there is no need for it:
| > ok, fair enough. But I've *NEVER* used the "ip add dev" command
| > syntax.
| > And I would hazard pretty much nobody else has either.
| I did use it for several years. I learned about its vlan capabilities
| only a couple of months ago though.

Please don't hazard such a guess. There are many of us that stay on top of the current ways of managing our systems and there are many that do not. I've been using ip add dev for ages.

| > There are a skillion shell scripts for KVM/QEMU, Xen, embedded
| > firewalls,
| > etc. that use 'vconfig' because that's how it's been done for ages.
|
| I doubt that those people use the minimal.iso. I for one would use
| (actually I DO use ) a pxe server with kickstart files adjusted as
| needed. But that's just me. And if they do use the minimal.iso, I bet
| that they have to add another package or two in order to fulfil the
| purpose of the said server[s]. By itself a minimal install does not
| do
| much except routing. Adding another package when needed is not that
| hard, is it ?


Please point to these scripts so that they may be updated to the "new" way of doing things. Feel free to submit patches upstream like a good community member too.

| > Sure,
| > we'd like everybody to go back and rewrite their scripts but I
| > don't see
| > that happening any time soon.
| >
| I see no reason to have people rewrite their scripts and I have no
| intent to enforce that on anyone.
| The only question I ask is "what did they do before the summer of
| 2011
| when minimal.iso was launched " ?


I see many reasons to have people rewrite their scripts. It's so that we can move forward with technology. Keep up to date on the "proper" methods for doing things or just plain don't do them at all. We need to move forward and sometimes that means breaking things. Usually this is kept to an absolute minimum. IMHO this is a minor break and the scripts in question should be fixed/updated.


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Simon Fraser University - Burnaby Campus
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"Matthew Patton" 08-17-2012 06:29 PM

please add vnconfig to minimal install CD
 
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 09:28:09 -0400, Karanbir Singh <mail-lists@karan.org>
wrote:

> On 08/17/2012 02:03 PM, Matthew Patton wrote:
>> There are a skillion shell scripts for KVM/QEMU, Xen, embedded
>> firewalls,
>> etc. that use 'vconfig' because that's how it's been done for ages.
>
> Could you point at some of these that are in wide use ?

Right now I'm mostly involved in CLoudStack but there are many people who
have written their own replacements to the (well, used to be) retarded Xen
vifbr-up scripts that shipped with Xen and KVM for many years. I'm sure
you can find lots of %pre/$post anaconda scripts that use it too. If you
Google "add a vlan to an interface" or "create kvm bridge network" I'd say
it's 99.5%+ all 'vconfig' and I have yet to see an 'ip add link' citation
in the search results.

If the attitude is "too bad, we obsoleted it, get over it" in classic
unix-snobbery fasion, fine. I'll deal. My retort to those who decided that
vconfig should be deprecated is, why not rewrite it as a shell script
wrapper around 'ip' with a nice stderr of "hey, this tool is deprecated."

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Karanbir Singh 08-17-2012 08:30 PM

please add vnconfig to minimal install CD
 
On 08/17/2012 07:29 PM, Matthew Patton wrote:
> If the attitude is "too bad, we obsoleted it, get over it" in classic
> unix-snobbery fasion, fine. I'll deal. My retort to those who decided that
> vconfig should be deprecated is, why not rewrite it as a shell script
> wrapper around 'ip' with a nice stderr of "hey, this tool is deprecated."

Not sure what side of the bed you got out of this morning...

The point here is : your assumption that a way to achieve something as
being missing from the minimal iso is wrong. Now if you want to have a
specific tool brought into the distro, which there is scope to do, need
to justify it. We have plenty of room on the minimal iso to add more
things in - but lets not just randomly add stuff in.

Lets leave the numbers of of your ass like '99.5% of the people use
vconfig' out. Unless you have done a survey of everyone who does vlan
configs as a matter of routine and can point us at it.

Secondly, I did google "add vlan to an interface centos" and the first 5
hits all talk about using the sysconfig scripts - which in turn use ip
and not vconfig. I didnt bother looking any further.

So, take a breath. I am sure can all understand that while there are
multiple ways of doing things, and the fact that there is historic
convention that might be at play here - lets still ensure a tangible
reason to make the addition exists.

So with that in mind, fancy trying again ?

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Les Mikesell 08-17-2012 09:22 PM

please add vnconfig to minimal install CD
 
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:05 PM, James A. Peltier <jpeltier@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
>
> I see many reasons to have people rewrite their scripts. It's so that we can move forward with technology.

It's technology, not fashion. If the 'new' breaks old documented
processes it isn't moving forward, it is just different. If it is
really better, it should easily maintain backwards compatibility.

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"Matthew Patton" 08-17-2012 09:45 PM

please add vnconfig to minimal install CD
 
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 16:30:16 -0400, Karanbir Singh <mail-lists@karan.org>
wrote:

> Secondly, I did google "add vlan to an interface centos" and the first 5
> hits all talk about using the sysconfig scripts

which is irrelevant. ifcfg scripts require the specially formatted files
to exist or be generated via NOW documents. Dynamic environments don't
hard code things like that.

> So with that in mind, fancy trying again ?

pretty please can we put this in the minimal distro? *beg*
Having multiple copies of a 4G DVD iSO (I have sites all over the place)
really burns a lot of disk for no good reason. Or maybe "disk1" should be
like RHEL of yore? About <600MB and it had everything reasonable to expect
of a basic system?

While I'm at it, a minimal system shouldn't be lacking the following IMO.

bind-utils
ntp
nc
man (the packages install all the manpages, so why not a way to read them?)
wget

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