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Old 02-06-2012, 07:43 PM
Marko Bevc
 
Default Dual Layer DVD iso for 6.3 / 5.8

Hi,

I thinks it is a nice move. Thumbs up, but we should also keep standard
DVD images for leagcy issues. Most of the servers (older) are still
equiped with DVDs (or maybe even CD-roms ) I also do not see any problem
providing for both types of images...besides obvious one - more disk space


Regards,
Marko

On Mon, 6 Feb 2012, Karanbir
Singh wrote:

> Hi Guys,
>
> there were some great conversations and ideas that came from the Fosdem
> weekend, over the next few days I'll try and summarise as many as I can
> and get some conversations started around the ideas.
>
> One thing that came up a few times, and Andreas mentioned as well, was
> that it might be a good idea to produce a single DVD iso, suitable for
> use on large dual layer DVD's as they are now starting to become more
> popular.
>
> Its fairly easy to do, however I would not be all that keen on exporting
> that via the regular mirrors. Therefore expanding the idea a bit :
>
> - Should we consider doing CD isos as well as dual layer DVD ones ?
>
> - Should we consider only having these two media formats available via
> torrent ?
>
>
>
>

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Old 02-06-2012, 08:07 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default Dual Layer DVD iso for 6.3 / 5.8

Hi Jke,

On 02/06/2012 08:17 PM, Jake Shipton wrote:
> As a user I think the dual layer ISO image is a good idea. But I still
> feel you should distribute a DVD Image suitable for single layer
> (4.7GB). I myself do not have any dual layer discs, and I am sure I
> would not be alone on that matter.

If we do the large single iso - it would be in addition to the dvd isos
we distribute already ( which have a max-size constraint of 4.3GB, so
suitable for all DVD formats ); those will not go away.

- KB
--
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:13 PM
Phil Schaffner
 
Default Dual Layer DVD iso for 6.3 / 5.8

Karanbir Singh wrote on 02/06/2012 02:40 PM:
> Hi Guys,
>
> there were some great conversations and ideas that came from the Fosdem
> weekend, over the next few days I'll try and summarise as many as I can
> and get some conversations started around the ideas.
>
> One thing that came up a few times, and Andreas mentioned as well, was
> that it might be a good idea to produce a single DVD iso, suitable for
> use on large dual layer DVD's as they are now starting to become more
> popular.

A combined DVD can be produced with a slight modification of the script
http://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks/CDtoDVDMedia (path for
implantisomd5 has changed) so the script and the two single-layer
images, along with some directions, would suffice to allow people to
download the two DVD ISOs and create a dual-layer. (I successfully made
the ISO with 6.2 - have not tested installing yet.)

> Its fairly easy to do, however I would not be all that keen on exporting
> that via the regular mirrors. Therefore expanding the idea a bit :
>
> - Should we consider doing CD isos as well as dual layer DVD ones ?

I'd advocate just continuing with the minimal install CD and installable
LiveCD.

> - Should we consider only having these two media formats available via
> torrent ?

If the script approach is not satisfactory that would be workable.

Phil

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Old 02-06-2012, 09:30 PM
Lamar Owen
 
Default Dual Layer DVD iso for 6.3 / 5.8

On Monday, February 06, 2012 02:40:13 PM Karanbir Singh wrote:
> - Should we consider doing CD isos as well as dual layer DVD ones ?

Dual layer single ISO would be nice for a number of reasons, but not so nice for other reasons.

Nice, in that a USB key of 8GB or so could just have the one ISO loaded;
Nice, in that all DVD-ROMS are supposed to be able to read dual-layer media;
Nice, in that a single DVD can handle things physically;
Nice, in that only a single ISO needs to be mounted for virtualization, which can simplify VM guest installs;

Not so nice, in that dual layer rewritables aren't available (to my knowledge at least), and when I do burn a DVD I tend to burn to rewritable media;
Not so nice, in that dual layer media is more expensive;
Not so nice, in that it takes that much longer to download when you don't need the second DVD.

CD's on the other hand would be nice all around for servers that don't have DVD-ROMS but are still capable of running C6 (I have a few 1U IBM's in that category for which DVD-ROM drives are scarce, and modifying a laptop thin-line DVD-ROM is difficult, since the slot for the drive is thinner than any other thinline drive I've seen

> - Should we consider only having these two media formats available via
> torrent ?

Whee, I hope not. Torrent is good and all for many things, but there are places where it's not going to work. I'd let mirrors opt-in to CD and DVD-DL images, as long as the master mirror has sufficient drive space.

Or, at one time there was a script out there to build DVD iso's from the CD iso's; if a quick script can build the DL iso from the two existing DVD iso's, or split out to multiple CD isos, and the user can download the two regular DVD isos and run the script/tool (revisor is used by SL for 'sites' and is a pretty good tool for this sort of thing). For that matter, revisor, along with the repos and jigdo files, can handle all of the tasks mentioned quite handily.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:54 PM
Khusro Jaleel
 
Default Dual Layer DVD iso for 6.3 / 5.8

On 02/06/2012 07:40 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> - Should we consider doing CD isos as well as dual layer DVD ones ?
>
> - Should we consider only having these two media formats available via
> torrent ?
>

Whenever I need to install CentOS I either download just the first CD
ISO or the netinstall ISO. This means the image is small enough to be
downloaded even using home broadband for my machines, and then I can get
anything else I need using 'yum'. So for people downloading (and
concious of bandwidth usage) either the netinstall or CD would be nice.

I have used torrents sometimes in the past but usually find it more
convenient and quicker to just download the ISO. However, if you are
going to make 8 gigs of data available to download, it might be a good
idea to restrict it to torrents because the bandwidth usage will be much
more efficient. If many individual users decide to just download the
dual layer ISOs using HTTP/FTP, that's a lot of bandwidth wasted.

I don't think the CDs should be torrent-only though, but maybe it's just me.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:07 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Dual Layer DVD iso for 6.3 / 5.8

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Karanbir Singh <mail-lists@karan.org> wrote:
>
>> As a user I think the dual layer ISO image is a good idea. But I still
>> feel you should distribute a DVD Image suitable for single layer
>> (4.7GB). I myself do not have any dual layer discs, and I am sure I
>> would not be alone on that matter.
>
> If we do the large single iso - it would be in addition to the dvd isos
> we distribute already ( which have a max-size constraint of 4.3GB, so
> suitable for all DVD formats ); those will not go away.

Would there be a way for a script to combine the two isos into one
with loopback mounts, a copy and rebuild? I'd probably use a
complete, single iso as file mapped to the DVD in VM's for booting
even if I couldn't burn it. But if you have to make extra effort,
I'd really rather have a minimal installer that fits a CD and lists of
the package groups that each type of install would include so I could
let yum do it after the base install.

--
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lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:10 PM
Phil Schaffner
 
Default Dual Layer DVD iso for 6.3 / 5.8

Les Mikesell wrote on 02/07/2012 12:07 PM:
> Would there be a way for a script to combine the two isos into one
> with loopback mounts, a copy and rebuild?

http://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks/CDtoDVDMedia

Now tested with 6.2 DVD1/2 for x86_64.

Phil

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Old 02-08-2012, 10:02 AM
Ljubomir Ljubojevic
 
Default Dual Layer DVD iso for 6.3 / 5.8

On 02/07/2012 02:54 PM, Khusro Jaleel wrote:
> However, if you are
> going to make 8 gigs of data available to download, it might be a good
> idea to restrict it to torrents because the bandwidth usage will be much
> more efficient.

If someone downloads both DVD ISO's (as now possible), then downloading
1 ISO with same size will not change things much.

Dual Layer DVD can be provided via external mirrors only, several days
later, but via torrent at the moment of release.

People downloading DualDVD ISO's will mostly be people having local
mirrors. They are disciplined enough to try avoiding mirror overloads
(using bittorent, external mirrors, etc.)


--

Ljubomir Ljubojevic
(Love is in the Air)
PL Computers
Serbia, Europe

Google is the Mother, Google is the Father, and traceroute is your
trusty Spiderman...
StarOS, Mikrotik and CentOS/RHEL/Linux consultant
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:20 AM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default Dual Layer DVD iso for 6.3 / 5.8

On 02/07/2012 01:54 PM, Khusro Jaleel wrote:
> I don't think the CDs should be torrent-only though, but maybe it's just me.

we dont have CD images for the distro CentOS-6 ( just the minimal one );
and there has not been a huge uproar about it honestly, just a few
people who mentioned it as inconvenient in passing.


--
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+44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh
ICQ: 2522219 | Yahoo IM: z00dax | Gtalk: z00dax
GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:45 AM
Khusro Jaleel
 
Default Dual Layer DVD iso for 6.3 / 5.8

On 02/08/2012 11:20 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> On 02/07/2012 01:54 PM, Khusro Jaleel wrote:
>> I don't think the CDs should be torrent-only though, but maybe it's just me.
>
> we dont have CD images for the distro CentOS-6 ( just the minimal one );
> and there has not been a huge uproar about it honestly, just a few
> people who mentioned it as inconvenient in passing.
>
>

That was more a response to your question "Should we consider doing CD
isos as well?". I think we should, but only because I (and maybe only
me) would use it. However if they are not there, I'll just get the DVD
ones, it's just slightly less convenient.

*IF* at some point there are CD ISOs, then I don't think they should be
torrent-only, that's what I meant.

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