FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > CentOS > CentOS Development

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 09-17-2011, 06:23 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default CentOS 5.7 has no centos-release-cr package

Hi,

On 09/16/2011 01:54 AM, Ben Galliart wrote:
> If CR is the recommended way to get security fixes during transition periods, then I would prefer to have systems opt-in ahead of time during the installs instead of at the last minute.

The /CR/ repo is meant to be an opt-in repository. The thinking is that
once someone opts into the idea of what the CR repo is, they stay with
it till such time as they want to opt-out, and they can do that with a
rpm -e centos-release-cr.

imho, it would be wrong to force people to get the centos-release-cr by
default, specially in the centos-5 lifecycle since it would be a drastic
change in the way things work and what people's expectations might be.[1]

If there is a desire to have this be default behaviour then the split
should, again imho - and open to discussion, be at the ReleaseVersion
level - as implemented in the yum client interface and delivered via the
mirrorlist / mirror network. To expand on that, using CentOS-6 as an
example:

- change mirror.centos.org/centos/6/ to _be_ CR; ie, the updates/ repo
under there would inherit the CR content automagically, and deliver repo
metadata to cover all ( CentOS-6 os) + ( CentOS-6 updates ) released
rpms. Would be tricky handling the /6/os/ repo, but we can work
something out.

- change mirror.centos.org/centos/6.0/ to only deliver content that is
6.0 specific, ie: what we do now with a point release. /6.0/os would
reflect install media shipped as CentOS-6.0-*bin*.iso; with
/6.0/updates/ only delivering updates released during the 6.0/ cycle.

Now back to the question on hand, centos-release-cr in 5.7..

Perhaps the best place for the centos-release-cr is in the updates/
repo, rather than the /cr/ repo, since that way it would further reduce
the barrier for people to opt-in, a simple 'yum install
centos-releae-cr' would get them on the track, and keep them there till
such time as they want to opt-out.

The important bit being that we keep the CR repo opt-in, and do our best
to create awareness of this repository, what it hopes to achieve and how
people can get it installed on their machines.

In terms of install-time-availability, we only really QA with the OS
repo's; adding or removing other repos is left upto site specific
implementations. However, if the centos-release-cr rpm was available in
the updates/ repo, it would clear this issue up for you ( I'm presuming
that you install with the updates/ repo present with a --repo line in
your kickstart ).

Now w.r.t release version of centos-release-cr, its at 5-6.el5.centos
since that reflects the state of CR. So you can see what condition of
the machine is. Even if you were to install centos-release-cr today, it
should still be 5-6.el5.centos since that was the last cr/ repo
populated. With the first rpm release into 5.7/cr/ would come the
centos-release-5-7.el5.centos rpm; which should get updated to everyone
who has opted-in, and would then correctly reflect the status of the
machine ( in that there would be a centos-release-5-7 and a
centos-release-cr-5-7 ).

Is this version scheme causing more confusion than its clearing out ?
Should there be a centos-release-cr-5-7.el5.centos available *NOW* in
5.7/cr/ and in 5.7/updates/ ?

- KB

[1]: Maybe we got the name wrong, NextRelease might have been clearer on
the goals and deliverables of that repo rather than ContinuousRelease.
And be easier to spell too
_______________________________________________
CentOS-devel mailing list
CentOS-devel@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
 
Old 09-17-2011, 07:29 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default CentOS 5.7 has no centos-release-cr package

On Sep 17, 2011 11:24 AM, "Karanbir Singh" <mail-lists@karan.org> wrote:

>

> imho, it would be wrong to force people to get the centos-release-cr by

> default, specially in the centos-5 lifecycle since it would be a drastic

> change in the way things work and what people's expectations might be.[1]

>

Sorry, but I don't know any people who expected the default Centos update behavior to lag months behind upstream for security fixes.


> The important bit being that we keep the CR repo opt-in, and do our best

> to create awareness of this repository, what it hopes to achieve and how

> people can get it installed on their machines.


How does it make sense to recommend one thing and make the default something else?* Especially when the default is not what people expect?

--

* Les Mikesell

*** lesmikesell@gmail.com



_______________________________________________
CentOS-devel mailing list
CentOS-devel@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
 
Old 09-17-2011, 08:24 PM
Ben Galliart
 
Default CentOS 5.7 has no centos-release-cr package

>From Karanbir Singh:
> Now back to the question on hand, centos-release-cr in 5.7..

> Perhaps the best place for the centos-release-cr is in the updates/
> repo, rather than the /cr/ repo, since that way it would further reduce
> the barrier for people to opt-in, a simple 'yum install
> centos-releae-cr' would get them on the track, and keep them there till
> such time as they want to opt-out.

Yes, that is the type of solution I am looking for!

> The important bit being that we keep the CR repo opt-in, and do our best
> to create awareness of this repository, what it hopes to achieve and how
> people can get it installed on their machines.

I understand the desire to keep the CR repo for opt-in. I would like to
see it as easy as possible to perform the opt-in. If it could be provided
as a noarch package in the update repo then it will be much easier to
instruct users to install via rpm or yum.

> Now w.r.t release version of centos-release-cr, its at 5-6.el5.centos
> since that reflects the state of CR. So you can see what condition of
> the machine is. Even if you were to install centos-release-cr today, it
> should still be 5-6.el5.centos since that was the last cr/ repo
> populated. With the first rpm release into 5.7/cr/ would come the
> centos-release-5-7.el5.centos rpm; which should get updated to everyone
> who has opted-in, and would then correctly reflect the status of the
> machine ( in that there would be a centos-release-5-7 and a
> centos-release-cr-5-7 ).

> Is this version scheme causing more confusion than its clearing out ?

If the 5.6/CR packages where based on Upstream 5.7 packages then it would
make more sense to me that it would be called 5-7. Likewise, if the 5.7/CR
directory is planned to contain packages based on Upstream 5.8 then it would
make more sense to me that it would be called 5-8. However, I feel this
point is nitpicking and can live with the current version system.

> Should there be a centos-release-cr-5-7.el5.centos available *NOW* in
> 5.7/cr/ and in 5.7/updates/ ?

I would like to see a centos-release-cr-5-8.el5.centos.noarch.rpm in
5.7/updates to allow users to clearly pre-opt-in now for packages based on
Upstream 5.8 when they become available.

> [1]: Maybe we got the name wrong, NextRelease might have been clearer on
> the goals and deliverables of that repo rather than ContinuousRelease.
> And be easier to spell too

I think now that "CR" has been used it will just create more confusion to
change it. I personally would have picked PR (Pre-Release).
_______________________________________________
CentOS-devel mailing list
CentOS-devel@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
 
Old 09-19-2011, 12:53 AM
Kevin Stange
 
Default CentOS 5.7 has no centos-release-cr package

On 09/17/2011 01:23 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> imho, it would be wrong to force people to get the centos-release-cr by
> default, specially in the centos-5 lifecycle since it would be a drastic
> change in the way things work and what people's expectations might be.[1]

I honestly don't think that most users of CentOS have or should have the
expectation they are going to stay with 5.6, for example, when 5.7 comes
out, for security reasons and also because yum forces their upgrade.
The RPM repos are replaced with new repos upon release, which don't
retain the versions of packages that were available in previous
releases. It's not really viable to stay on 5.6, and current operations
assume you won't.

The only real way a user of "yum" can tell is that they suddenly receive
a new "centos-release" package in their update.

> If there is a desire to have this be default behaviour then the split
> should, again imho - and open to discussion, be at the ReleaseVersion
> level - as implemented in the yum client interface and delivered via the
> mirrorlist / mirror network. To expand on that, using CentOS-6 as an
> example:
>
> - change mirror.centos.org/centos/6/ to _be_ CR; ie, the updates/ repo
> under there would inherit the CR content automagically, and deliver repo
> metadata to cover all ( CentOS-6 os) + ( CentOS-6 updates ) released
> rpms. Would be tricky handling the /6/os/ repo, but we can work
> something out.
>
> - change mirror.centos.org/centos/6.0/ to only deliver content that is
> 6.0 specific, ie: what we do now with a point release. /6.0/os would
> reflect install media shipped as CentOS-6.0-*bin*.iso; with
> /6.0/updates/ only delivering updates released during the 6.0/ cycle.

I am generally in favor of having a constantly rolling release at 5/ and
6/ instead of worrying about having the media ready. The vast majority
of our installations are going to be updated from one release (5.6) to
the next (5.7) and we perform PXE-based KS installs with the intention
of having them start out fully updated.

If I never saw another ISO produced again, it would not be a problem for
how I use CentOS, and I certainly think that getting new installs
rolling on new media is of much less importance than keeping existing
installs secure and stable.

As far as the content at 6/, I see the following making sense as a
release process:

1) Upstream releases 6.1
2) All important update packages are produced and placed in 6/updates/
3) While updates continue, 6.1 installer, images undergo QA and release
4) Full release tree is inserted at 6.1/
5) Upon release, packages shared between 6/updates and 6.1/os are
hardlinked together
6) After some mirror stabilization, 6/os is symlinked to 6.1/os
7) After another mirror stabilization 6/updates is cleared of pre-6.1
packages
8) After the usual waiting period, trees for 6.0 are moved to the vault
and deleted from mirrors.

I would say that default installation $releasever should resolve to "6"
and as usual, if there's a desire to fear any future 6.x releases,
that's an exercise to be undertaken manually.

> Now back to the question on hand, centos-release-cr in 5.7..
>
> Perhaps the best place for the centos-release-cr is in the updates/
> repo, rather than the /cr/ repo, since that way it would further reduce
> the barrier for people to opt-in, a simple 'yum install
> centos-releae-cr' would get them on the track, and keep them there till
> such time as they want to opt-out.

This is, as I had suggested on IRC, what I would prefer.

> The important bit being that we keep the CR repo opt-in, and do our best
> to create awareness of this repository, what it hopes to achieve and how
> people can get it installed on their machines.

We provide supported "managed" Linux, so we want this to CR to always be
enabled so that users get the expected result that if they update their
system manually, they get security updates, and if we update, we don't
have to worry about the opt-in process.

> In terms of install-time-availability, we only really QA with the OS
> repo's; adding or removing other repos is left upto site specific
> implementations. However, if the centos-release-cr rpm was available in
> the updates/ repo, it would clear this issue up for you ( I'm presuming
> that you install with the updates/ repo present with a --repo line in
> your kickstart ).

Yes, I think a fully up-to-date installation is one of the primary goals
of having the CR included in the kickstart.

> Now w.r.t release version of centos-release-cr, its at 5-6.el5.centos
> since that reflects the state of CR. So you can see what condition of
> the machine is. Even if you were to install centos-release-cr today, it
> should still be 5-6.el5.centos since that was the last cr/ repo
> populated. With the first rpm release into 5.7/cr/ would come the
> centos-release-5-7.el5.centos rpm; which should get updated to everyone
> who has opted-in, and would then correctly reflect the status of the
> machine ( in that there would be a centos-release-5-7 and a
> centos-release-cr-5-7 ).

I'd say the version number is unimportant since the actual repo
configuration is not version-dependent, so centos-release-cr-5-100 would
be fine to avoid any possible confusion.

--
Kevin Stange
Chief Technology Officer
Steadfast Networks
http://steadfast.net
Phone: 312-602-2689 ext. 203 | Fax: 312-602-2688 | Cell: 312-320-5867

_______________________________________________
CentOS-devel mailing list
CentOS-devel@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
 
Old 09-23-2011, 01:16 AM
Ben Galliart
 
Default CentOS 5.7 has no centos-release-cr package

On 09/17/2011, Karanbir Singh wrote:

> Now back to the question on hand, centos-release-cr in 5.7..

> Perhaps the best place for the centos-release-cr is in the updates/
> repo, rather than the /cr/ repo, since that way it would further reduce
> the barrier for people to opt-in, a simple 'yum install
> centos-releae-cr' would get them on the track, and keep them there till
> such time as they want to opt-out.

Is there any ETA as to when this could be done or at least decided on?

Thanks
_______________________________________________
CentOS-devel mailing list
CentOS-devel@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
 
Old 09-23-2011, 08:25 PM
Johnny Hughes
 
Default CentOS 5.7 has no centos-release-cr package

On 09/22/2011 08:16 PM, Ben Galliart wrote:
> On 09/17/2011, Karanbir Singh wrote:
>
>> Now back to the question on hand, centos-release-cr in 5.7..
>
>> Perhaps the best place for the centos-release-cr is in the updates/
>> repo, rather than the /cr/ repo, since that way it would further reduce
>> the barrier for people to opt-in, a simple 'yum install
>> centos-releae-cr' would get them on the track, and keep them there till
>> such time as they want to opt-out.
>
> Is there any ETA as to when this could be done or at least decided on?

There is no need to upgrade anything. If you installed the package, you
are on CR ... then and now.

The CentOS-CR repo points to /5/cr/ (which is 5.7 now and was 5.6 when
the repo file was released).

It (/cr/) is currently empty because 5.7/os and 5.7/updates contain all
the RPMS that are required to update from 5.6 (or any other version of
CentOS).

When 5.8 is released, the RPMs that are part of 5.8 will get put into
the /5.7/cr/ and allow people who are opted in to get the updates before
the 5.8 release.

I think maybe putting the RPM in "extras", so it is easier to install is
doable ... but not a huge issue.

In fact, I have put it there. centos-release-cr is now in extras.

You can install it from there once the mirrors sync it up.

_______________________________________________
CentOS-devel mailing list
CentOS-devel@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
 
Old 09-23-2011, 08:49 PM
Kevin Stange
 
Default CentOS 5.7 has no centos-release-cr package

On 09/23/2011 03:25 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
> On 09/22/2011 08:16 PM, Ben Galliart wrote:
>> On 09/17/2011, Karanbir Singh wrote:
>>
>>> Now back to the question on hand, centos-release-cr in 5.7..
>>
>>> Perhaps the best place for the centos-release-cr is in the updates/
>>> repo, rather than the /cr/ repo, since that way it would further reduce
>>> the barrier for people to opt-in, a simple 'yum install
>>> centos-releae-cr' would get them on the track, and keep them there till
>>> such time as they want to opt-out.
>>
>> Is there any ETA as to when this could be done or at least decided on?
>
> There is no need to upgrade anything. If you installed the package, you
> are on CR ... then and now.
>
> The CentOS-CR repo points to /5/cr/ (which is 5.7 now and was 5.6 when
> the repo file was released).
>
> It (/cr/) is currently empty because 5.7/os and 5.7/updates contain all
> the RPMS that are required to update from 5.6 (or any other version of
> CentOS).
>
> When 5.8 is released, the RPMs that are part of 5.8 will get put into
> the /5.7/cr/ and allow people who are opted in to get the updates before
> the 5.8 release.

We already understand clearly what CR is, I don't understand why every
time we mention ideas for changes to the CR someone feels the need to
explain how it's supposed to work.

We were trying to effect a change to ensure that a fresh, clean install
of CentOS (any 5 release) could be pre-opted-in to CR before it actually
has packages in it, simply by including centos-release-cr in %packages
in our KS file (and whatever repo to pull the RPM from).

>
> I think maybe putting the RPM in "extras", so it is easier to install is
> doable ... but not a huge issue.

It had been suggested to put it into updates/ (by KB) but extras/ works
as well. As long as that RPM is in a repo which is enabled by default.
Now you can update your CR instructions to say "yum install
centos-release-cr" to opt-in instead of having them copy a URL and
manually run "rpm -i"

> In fact, I have put it there. centos-release-cr is now in extras.
>
> You can install it from there once the mirrors sync it up.

That was the point, thank you. Please try to make sure that the CR repo
file is placed in extras/ during the initial release of each new
revision of CentOS to avoid breaking KS files that might want to pre-opt-in.

--
Kevin Stange
Chief Technology Officer
Steadfast Networks
http://steadfast.net
Phone: 312-602-2689 ext. 203 | Fax: 312-602-2688 | Cell: 312-320-5867

_______________________________________________
CentOS-devel mailing list
CentOS-devel@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
 
Old 09-23-2011, 08:52 PM
Phil Schaffner
 
Default CentOS 5.7 has no centos-release-cr package

Johnny Hughes wrote on 09/23/2011 04:25 PM:
...
> There is no need to upgrade anything. If you installed the package,
> you are on CR ... then and now.
>
> The CentOS-CR repo points to /5/cr/ (which is 5.7 now and was 5.6
> when the repo file was released).
>
> It (/cr/) is currently empty because 5.7/os and 5.7/updates contain
> all the RPMS that are required to update from 5.6 (or any other
> version of CentOS).
>
> When 5.8 is released, the RPMs that are part of 5.8 will get put
> into the /5.7/cr/ and allow people who are opted in to get the
> updates before the 5.8 release.
>
> I think maybe putting the RPM in "extras", so it is easier to install
> is doable ... but not a huge issue.
>
> In fact, I have put it there. centos-release-cr is now in extras.
>
> You can install it from there once the mirrors sync it up.
>

The CR Wiki page (1) currently states:

"At present 22 September 2011 and later, it is appropriate proper to
remove those packages thus: rpm -e --allmatches centos-release-cr and
probably also wise, to prevent unwanted error noise, as the content in
the file path referred to, has been retired and removed, as superseded
by the point release update. "

Sounds like a more appropriate statement might be something like:

"The centos-release-cr package can safely be left in place for future
use, and is now in the [extras] repository for ease of access. While
the [cr] repository is empty it will effectively be ignored."

Phil

(1) http://wiki.centos.org/AdditionalResources/Repositories/CR
_______________________________________________
CentOS-devel mailing list
CentOS-devel@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
 
Old 09-23-2011, 09:05 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default CentOS 5.7 has no centos-release-cr package

On 09/23/2011 09:52 PM, Phil Schaffner wrote:
> "The centos-release-cr package can safely be left in place for future
> use, and is now in the [extras] repository for ease of access. While
> the [cr] repository is empty it will effectively be ignored."

the way to install the package should be changed as well

- KB
_______________________________________________
CentOS-devel mailing list
CentOS-devel@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
 
Old 09-24-2011, 05:15 PM
Johnny Hughes
 
Default CentOS 5.7 has no centos-release-cr package

On 09/23/2011 04:05 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> On 09/23/2011 09:52 PM, Phil Schaffner wrote:
>> "The centos-release-cr package can safely be left in place for future
>> use, and is now in the [extras] repository for ease of access. While
>> the [cr] repository is empty it will effectively be ignored."
>
> the way to install the package should be changed as well
>

See if it looks OK now:

http://wiki.centos.org/AdditionalResources/Repositories/CR


_______________________________________________
CentOS-devel mailing list
CentOS-devel@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 09:34 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org