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Old 07-24-2011, 10:39 AM
"Marko Bevc"
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

Great, I would be happy to listen!

Regards,
Marko
> On Friday 22 July 2011 14:50:20 Karanbir Singh wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 07/22/2011 12:29 AM, Brandon Ooi wrote:
>> > I would not be surprised if we see RH do something about this. They
>> > contribute the most to linux development of anybody. Anybody know
>> > someone at RH to see if there are plans? Possibly done on the Fedora
>> > side and trickle down to RHEL/CentOS?
>>
>> As Jeff and Russ already pointed out - it would be interesting to see
>> what Red Hat do at their end, or even if they consider this sort of a
>> deployment scenario as something their customers would be keen on.
>> However, we are quite a large community here within the CentOS arena,
>> and given that there are quite a few people who use CentOS, who are also
>> insterested in this sort of a scenario - now is a good opportunity to
>> put together some efforts and see if we can solve this problem, for
>> ourselves.
>>
>> In terms of people who cant help : Maybe we can get Marian to host a
>> webinar or something of that nature that people interested could attend
>> and see for themselves what the implications are, how the work might be
>> done and what is needed to make things happen. I would be happy to
>> organise something of this nature, should Marian agree.
>>
>> - KB
>
> The next three weeks I will be extremely busy around my company, so I
> would
> not be able before 14.Aug. But after that I'll be more then happy to host
> a
> webinar on ksplice and what I already have tested.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Marian Marinov
> CEO of 1H Ltd.
> _______________________________________________
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> CentOS-devel@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
>


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Old 07-24-2011, 01:38 PM
William Warren
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On 7/21/2011 4:56 PM, Jerry Amundson wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Karanbir Singh<mail-lists@karan.org> wrote:
>> hi guys,
>>
>> lots of people on this list are keen on contributing to the CentOS
>> effort - and one place where we could, as a group of people, make a
>> massive difference is being able to deliver a ksplice upgrade model. A
>> couple of people have started in silo's to try and get something
>> together but I feel it might be a good time to try and see if we can do
>> somethng as a group.
>>
>> Do we have people on the list who find the idea of rebootless kernel
>> upgrades interesting ? Is there some desire to try and make that happen
>> within the CentOS Ecosystem ?
> So you mean, developing from the ground up, something "ksplice-like"?
> The "ksplice" I see out there is closed source, and was purchased by
> Oracle today, for what it's worth... :-(
>
> jerry
> _______________________________________________
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> CentOS-devel@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
actually ksplice .9 was gpl2. I snagged a copy if anyone wants it i'll
stick it up on my website.
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:40 PM
William Warren
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On 7/23/2011 3:29 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Ok, now with some git, you can get the base code from :
>
> git clone git://nazar.karan.org/testing/ksplice
>
> web ui at : https://nazar.karan.org/cgit/ksplice/
>
> with mirror's at
>
> https://gitorious.org/centos/ksplice and
> https://github.com/CentOS/ksplice
>
> merge across mirrors via hooks ( lets see how that works out.. )
>
> push changes via github / gitorious or git-email..
>
>
> - KB
> _______________________________________________
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kewlies..glad to see somebody had the code too..
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Old 11-19-2011, 12:09 PM
Andreas Balg
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

Hello everybody,
*
I remember Karan got the ksplice-code in order to be able to fork this great technology for CentOS and not let got Oracle all alone with this.
*
So what happened the last weeks/months regarding this great idea ? I‘d personally and professionally be interested in using it for our deployments but also to contribute where possible – we have no kernel-development knowledge here to help out but maybe we can help in other ways as well.
*
Is there already any project fort he fork going on or did the idea die or sleep silently the last few weeks ??
*
Curious greetings from switzerland,
*
Andreas
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Old 11-19-2011, 12:44 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On 11/19/2011 01:09 PM, Andreas Balg wrote:
> I remember Karan got the ksplice-code in order to be able to fork this
> great technology for CentOS and not let got Oracle all alone with this.

There have been issues..

> So what happened the last weeks/months regarding this great idea ? I‘d

1) Corey has been doing some work on this - we managed to get a couple
of test patches rolled into modules, ship them over and keep the
machines going - but being able to do that for the large patches coming
from RH has been very hard - not the least because neither Corey nor I
have enough kernel development foo to keep things moving forward. The
merged patch from RH does not help at all.

2) The tool chain published by ksplice/oracle is incomplete. There are
atleast 3 efforts, that I know about, to chase them up to get the
complete toolchain released ( and this is the one that they *are* using
and shipping at the moment, still with GPL license code. So join the
effort : signup a fedora machine or an ubuntu machine, get their free
stack on there, then ask for the source. Document the process, blog
about it and canvas for local support. It would help.

3) There might be other, better ways of achieving the same result -
atleast one of which has prior art going back into the late 1960's - but
between both of the us, it again boils down to time/resource and kernel
development foo.

Finally, there have been pressures on various fronts keeping us from
working on this much further. We also noticed that there was and is very
little interest in ksplice itself. While it sounds really cool very few
people really need something of this nature. And given that you cant
really just keep patching, all the time, all kinds of patches - the idea
that your machine will stay online 24/7 is a bit of mis-selling really.

> personally and professionally be interested in using it for our
> deployments but also to contribute where possible – we have no
> kernel-development knowledge here to help out but maybe we can help in
> other ways as well.

Absolutely!

> Is there already any project fort he fork going on or did the idea die
> or sleep silently the last few weeks ??

things have been ticking along, slowly, in the background. If there is
enough interest and if we can get a few people involved in there with
the require skills - we should have a chat about it, split up the tasks
and all of us go away do something about those tasks. Having said that,
I am still quite keen to see oracle/ksplice actually release their code.

> Curious greetings from switzerland,

Hello from a surprisingly sunny London!

- KB
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Old 11-20-2011, 01:02 AM
Corey Henderson
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On 11/19/2011 6:44 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> On 11/19/2011 01:09 PM, Andreas Balg wrote:
>> I remember Karan got the ksplice-code in order to be able to fork this
>> great technology for CentOS and not let got Oracle all alone with this.
>
> There have been issues..
>

I'll add my two cents.

>> So what happened the last weeks/months regarding this great idea ? I‘d
>
> 1) Corey has been doing some work on this - we managed to get a couple
> of test patches rolled into modules, ship them over and keep the
> machines going - but being able to do that for the large patches coming
> from RH has been very hard - not the least because neither Corey nor I
> have enough kernel development foo to keep things moving forward. The
> merged patch from RH does not help at all.
>

I posted a "how to" with the ksplice raw utils a little while ago:

http://cormander.com/2011/08/how-to-use-the-ksplice-raw-utilities/

It's fairly easy to build one update. Stacking updates is a different
issue, and doing large patches is also another issue.

I'm very interested in getting deeper into the kernel dev foo, but at
the present I'm currently occupied with another project.

> 2) The tool chain published by ksplice/oracle is incomplete. There are
> atleast 3 efforts, that I know about, to chase them up to get the
> complete toolchain released ( and this is the one that they *are* using
> and shipping at the moment, still with GPL license code. So join the
> effort : signup a fedora machine or an ubuntu machine, get their free
> stack on there, then ask for the source. Document the process, blog
> about it and canvas for local support. It would help.
>

The main issue is the toolchain we have only works for the EL5 kernel.
It doesn't work for EL6, nor the current fedora, as it's obviously
missing code changes.

The internal kernel code changes enough between major releases that I
imagine the development of the ksplice toolchain has been pretty far
past what we have. Our git repo with the code has nothing more than what
oracle releases here:

http://oss.oracle.com/ksplice/software/

The fact that they haven't released any further source code is actually
a violation of the GPL. I explain some details here:

http://cormander.com/2011/08/what-some-many-people-dont-understand-about-the-gpl/

The violation is simple; they release binary code that was compiled with
GPL code (ie; kernel source code) but don't release a) the patch they
compiled and b) the method(s) of compiling it. The GPL is a pretty viral
license.

So, any support we can get on this front is appreciated.

> 3) There might be other, better ways of achieving the same result -
> atleast one of which has prior art going back into the late 1960's - but
> between both of the us, it again boils down to time/resource and kernel
> development foo.
>

A while ago I tinkered with a different approach, and it sort-of works.
I stopped development on it when I realized that it isn't good enough
(as is, anyway) to be a comparable replacement. It's on github if anyone
is curious:

https://github.com/cormander/kermender

The code for it is based off of a lkm-rootkit method that I also use in
my tpe-lkm project:

https://github.com/cormander/tpe-lkm

It's a nice and easy security feature. But now I'm getting off topic.

> Finally, there have been pressures on various fronts keeping us from
> working on this much further. We also noticed that there was and is very
> little interest in ksplice itself. While it sounds really cool very few
> people really need something of this nature. And given that you cant
> really just keep patching, all the time, all kinds of patches - the idea
> that your machine will stay online 24/7 is a bit of mis-selling really.
>

I honestly think that people don't trust the technology enough to have
interest in it. IMHO it's solid stuff, but it has to be done right, and
the various factors KB talked about is what's keeping us from making a
big push for it.

>> personally and professionally be interested in using it for our
>> deployments but also to contribute where possible – we have no
>> kernel-development knowledge here to help out but maybe we can help in
>> other ways as well.
>
> Absolutely!
>

Drop me a line directly to see what we can work out.

>> Is there already any project fort he fork going on or did the idea die
>> or sleep silently the last few weeks ??
>
> things have been ticking along, slowly, in the background. If there is
> enough interest and if we can get a few people involved in there with
> the require skills - we should have a chat about it, split up the tasks
> and all of us go away do something about those tasks. Having said that,
> I am still quite keen to see oracle/ksplice actually release their code.
>
>> Curious greetings from switzerland,
>
> Hello from a surprisingly sunny London!
>

Hello from a snow-covered Utah

> - KB
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS-devel mailing list
> CentOS-devel@centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel


--
Corey Henderson
http://cormander.com/
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