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Old 07-21-2011, 09:39 PM
Hakan Koseoglu
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On 21/07/11 22:29, Tru Huynh wrote:
> Oracle believes it will be the only enterprise Linux provider that can offer
> zero downtime updates, and expects to make the Ksplice technology a standard
> feature of Oracle Linux Premier Support.
> ...
>
> Time will tell
Ho-hum. We'll see. Oracle is becoming one of the most evil companies as
far as my opinion counts.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:52 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On 07/21/2011 10:39 PM, Hakan Koseoglu wrote:
> Ho-hum. We'll see. Oracle is becoming one of the most evil companies as
> far as my opinion counts.

Sounds like a good reason for us to pickup on ksplice and see if we, as
a group of people, can create an alternative.

- KB
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:09 PM
Marian Marinov
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On Friday 22 July 2011 00:25:29 Tru Huynh wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 04:10:10PM -0500, Jerry Amundson wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Karanbir Singh <mail-lists@karan.org>
wrote:
> > > On 07/21/2011 09:56 PM, Jerry Amundson wrote:
> > >> So you mean, developing from the ground up, something "ksplice-like"?
> > >> The "ksplice" I see out there is closed source, and was purchased by
> > >> Oracle today, for what it's worth... :-(
> > >
> > > ksplice has always been GPL friendly, or I've been lead to believe by
> > > the guys who wrote it originally. I have a git clone from earlier this
> > > year and it clearly indicates the code as being GPLv2.
> > >
> > > Happy to publish it.
> >
> > Please do! :-)
> > The download links in this WikiPedia article are already zapped as well.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksplice
>
> http://dev.centos.org/~tru/ksplice/
> original files and signed with their key
>
> from the included README:
>
> Ksplice
> Copyright (C) 2007-2009 Ksplice, Inc.
> Authors: Jeff Arnold, Anders Kaseorg, Tim Abbott
>
> This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
> it under the terms of the GNU General Public License, version 2.
>
> For more information about Ksplice, please see <http://www.ksplice.com/>.
>
> Installation instructions:
> $ ./configure
> $ make
> $ make install
>
> Notable Build Dependencies:
> - GNU binary file descriptor (BFD) library (version 2.15 or later)
> (available in Debian's binutils-dev package and in other distributions)
>
> Tru

I have worked for a few days on the KSplice code. But I'm stuck writing a tool
for analyzing patches.

The problem I faced was that if you have a few simple patches that don't alter
major structures in the kernel it self you can simply create a ksplice module
from those patches and load it. It works like a charm.

But when you start putting more and more patches, inevidablly you reach a
point where there is a patch that for example changes the VFS layer or the
network layer or somthing like that. At that point you need to write
additional code so the ksplice module generator would know how to handle the
upgrade.

For some patches it is fairly trivial... for others it is quite complex.

So what I decided to do is firs separate the 3 types of patches:
1. Ready to apply (no major changes to structures in the kernel)
2. Patches that require additional code (minor or trivial changes to
structures in the kernel)
3. Patches that require manual review (major changes to structures in the
kernel or possible conflicts with other parts of the kernel)

It would be great if we put the project in GitHub or Gitorius so we can all
collaborate on the solution.

Best regards,
Marian Marinov
CEO of 1H Ltd.
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:17 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On 07/21/2011 11:09 PM, Marian Marinov wrote:
> It would be great if we put the project in GitHub or Gitorius so we can all
> collaborate on the solution.

I've literally just put the git repo together and am pushing it out with
a few mirrors. Stay tuned for urls

- KB
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:49 PM
Khusro Jaleel
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On 21/07/11 21:37, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Do we have people on the list who find the idea of rebootless kernel
> upgrades interesting ? Is there some desire to try and make that happen
> within the CentOS Ecosystem ?

Yes I do find them interesting, thanks for this. I have never used it
myself though as it seemed to be only Ubuntu that supported out of the
box and I haven't used Ubuntu for a while now. It would be nice to be
able to do rebootless upgrades in CentOS, yes. Not sure how I could
contribute though.
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:27 PM
Sam Wilson
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

I too am sad to see KSplice gobbled up by (evil corporation here). Though I am in the same boat as Khusro in that I probably can't really contribute to active development I am sure I have some hardware that can be dedicated to testing and QA for a KSplice fork.

Cheers,

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: "Khusro Jaleel" <mailing-lists@kerneljack.com>
To: centos-devel@centos.org
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 8:49:52 AM
Subject: Re: [CentOS-devel] ksplice and CentOS

On 21/07/11 21:37, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Do we have people on the list who find the idea of rebootless kernel
> upgrades interesting ? Is there some desire to try and make that happen
> within the CentOS Ecosystem ?

Yes I do find them interesting, thanks for this. I have never used it
myself though as it seemed to be only Ubuntu that supported out of the
box and I haven't used Ubuntu for a while now. It would be nice to be
able to do rebootless upgrades in CentOS, yes. Not sure how I could
contribute though.
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:29 PM
Brandon Ooi
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Sam Wilson <kahn@the-mesh.org> wrote:


I too am sad to see KSplice gobbled up by (evil corporation here). Though I am in the same boat as Khusro in that I probably can't really contribute to active development I am sure I have some hardware that can be dedicated to testing and QA for a KSplice fork.





Cheers,



Sam

**I would not be surprised if we see RH do something about this. They contribute the most to linux development of anybody. Anybody know someone at RH to see if there are plans? Possibly done on the Fedora side and trickle down to RHEL/CentOS?


Brandon
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:37 PM
Jeff Johnson
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Brandon Ooi wrote:On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Sam Wilson <kahn@the-mesh.org> wrote:


I too am sad to see KSplice gobbled up by (evil corporation here). Though I am in the same boat as Khusro in that I probably can't really contribute to active development I am sure I have some hardware that can be dedicated to testing and QA for a KSplice fork.





Cheers,



Sam

**I would not be surprised if we see RH do something about this. They contribute the most to linux development of anybody. Anybody know someone at RH to see if there are plans? Possibly done on the Fedora side and trickle down to RHEL/CentOS?



Um, does it matter what Oracle and RedHat are doing?
This is Centos, most users are here because they cannot afford topay for either RedHat or Oracle product for whatever reason.
To paraphrase a recent LWN quote-of-the-week (and not from smooge ;-)
If you're not paying for THEIR product, you ARE their product.
If you would like be "product", while have fun!
Meanwhile if splice is useful and their is interest, you're gonna haveto generate a kernel patch stream somehow in order to make spliceJust Work (and continue to work) in CentOS.
73 de Jeff


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Old 07-21-2011, 11:43 PM
Ray Van Dolson
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 07:37:16PM -0400, Jeff Johnson wrote:
> Um, does it matter what Oracle and RedHat are doing?

Only to the extent that without Red Hat, CentOS doesn't exist! :-)

But your point is well taken.

Ray
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:45 AM
R P Herrold
 
Default ksplice and CentOS

On Thu, 21 Jul 2011, Ray Van Dolson wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 07:37:16PM -0400, Jeff Johnson wrote:
>> Um, does it matter what Oracle and RedHat are doing?
>
> Only to the extent that without Red Hat, CentOS doesn't exist! :-)

umm ... CentOS is of course an outgrowth sub-project from
cAos [admittedly, the poster child success story], which
pre-dated RHEL rebuilds, just fine, thank you very much.
Founded on discussions of:
What if there was no Red Hat Linux

Spinning stabilized enterprise grade distributions is largely
a matter of a willingness to lag in a stable branch, and to
backport security matters as needed. Boring stuff

The FOSS community predated the upstream's product that CentOS
rebuilds sources of ... and the wells of those sources
(although partially fed from efforts of the upstream) will
continue if the upstream did not exist ...

In IRC today, someone wandered into the main channel looking
for a 'later and greater' ImageMagic ... looking at the logs,
it took me a bit under 40 minutes (1731 to 1809) to 'freshen'
this leaf node package and all BR and R dependencies to a very
recent product

How many leaf node package fruit does one really need and use
daily, anyway? In the most recent 1000 lines of my history on
the laptop I am composing this on, I find:

$ history | awk {'print $2'} | sort | uniq -c | sort -n | wc

is only 85 commands. and most of those are unremarkable or
part of bash, or local scriptlets

2 display
2 for
2 kill
2 ks
2 lynx
2 /sbin/ifconfig
2 su
2 thunar
2 /usr/bin/firefox
2 wc
3 echo
3 grep
3 lynxdump
3 ./maple-ide
3 scp
3 unzip
4 eject
4 pwd
4 tail
5 chmod
5 convert
5 history
5 which
6 arduino
6 ./README
6 rpm
7 firefox-charlie
8 gen-pw.sh
8 man
9 ps
11 cp
15 cat
18 mv
18 rm
19 xpdf
22 rpmbuild
27 sudo
28 backup-home-to-net.sh
31 mkdir
38 wget
41 startx
46 less
70 joe
128 ssh
139 ls
190 cd
1000 3111 26659

[I see ImageMagic primitives in that list a couple of times;
'joe' and 'xpdf' are gone from C6, but it does not matter, as
I've built them locally for a long time to meet my
habituations]

It might not be comfortable for a few months if we needed to
live like that transition of no RHL to something, but not the
end of the world for people not addicted to the latest and
greatest

-- Russ herrold
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