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Old 02-18-2011, 07:20 PM
Ralph Angenendt
 
Default Website Version 2, next steps

Am 18.02.11 18:23, schrieb Andrea Veri:

> I agree with all the above. We just need to define which software to use
> and then we should just roll up our sleeves and start making this real.
>
> Will wait the next step.

Next step is swapping ideas around on how we can make sure to get a
clean user database, on how to make a central management "console" for
that and on how to best plugin different applications into that.

You want to wait through that or throw some ideas around, too? >

Ralph
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:53 AM
Larry Vaden
 
Default Website Version 2, next steps

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Also, people like me might say something different from a work email
> account than from a personal account.
>
> I worry about using the email address as the key, because it makes it
> very difficult to *preserve* a user's history across address changes.
> I like my GMail account, but I've had old Comcast or university
> accounts from which I submitted bugs to RHEL years ago. If I'm not
> mistaken, index management by numerical keys can often be
> significantly faster than by text keys.

echo "Nico Kadel-Garcia G MM/DD/YYYY Born_in_City, Nation
Mother's_Maiden_Name" | md5sum -t
352d6060b85ef831453bd71cfe22e9a9 -

works very well for ISP subscriber account numbers.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:14 PM
Nico Kadel-Garcia
 
Default Website Version 2, next steps

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Larry Vaden <vaden@texoma.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Also, people like me might say something different from a work email
>> account than from a personal account.
>>
>> I worry about using the email address as the key, because it makes it
>> very difficult to *preserve* a user's history across address changes.
>> I like my GMail account, but I've had old Comcast or university
>> accounts from which I submitted bugs to RHEL years ago. If I'm not
>> mistaken, index management by numerical keys can often be
>> significantly faster than by text keys.
>
> echo "Nico Kadel-Garcia G MM/DD/YYYY Born_in_City, Nation
> Mother's_Maiden_Name" | md5sum -t
> 352d6060b85ef831453bd71cfe22e9a9 *-
>
> works very well for ISP subscriber account numbers.

First, md5sum merely makes collisions unlikely, not certain. You'd be
wise to check for collisions if you're being careful, even though
they're unlikely, and once you've done that, why not simply use
incrementing numbers?

And it wouldn't have worked before I got married. My "maiden name" was
"Garcia-Otero". I have cousins with that name, whose mother's maiden
names was "Otero-[whatever]", and I can think of one whom this would
have matched. He died some time back, but such schemes often don't
scale well and break down under stress.

Worse, my name changed when I got married. That breaks the indexing algorithm.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:18 PM
James Hogarth
 
Default Website Version 2, next steps

So getting back to the original post and discussion....

We could have the username separate from the email side of things and
do LDAP lookup on that...

There would still be consistent logins throughout but would be easier
for email changes for notification of PMs etc on forums etc.
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Old 02-19-2011, 11:01 PM
Nico Kadel-Garcia
 
Default Website Version 2, next steps

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:18 AM, James Hogarth <james.hogarth@gmail.com> wrote:
> So getting back to the original post and discussion....
>
> We could have the username separate from the email side of things and
> do LDAP lookup on that...
>
> There would still be consistent logins throughout but would be easier
> for email changes for notification of PMs etc on forums etc.

Bingo. So the index is......... What? Its own value, typically an
incrementing number, just like it is for most sane databases. Tying
indexes to integral components of a database is one of the more
hateful errors in large project integration that I've had to deal with
several times lately.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:03 AM
James Hogarth
 
Default Website Version 2, next steps

>
> Bingo. So the index is......... What? Its own value, typically an
> incrementing number, just like it is for most sane databases. Tying
> indexes to integral components of a database is one of the more
> hateful errors in large project integration that I've had to deal with
> several times lately.
>

Assuming LDAP then that's not really an issue for that point.

The instance should be properly indexing cname (or whichever value anyway).

The real question is the value used for login... and I would suggest a
simple username as opposed to email to make email changing easier and
would not cause/require a reindex.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:25 PM
Andrea Veri
 
Default Website Version 2, next steps

Il giorno 18/feb/2011, alle ore 21.20, Ralph Angenendt ha scritto:

> Am 18.02.11 18:23, schrieb Andrea Veri:
>
>> I agree with all the above. We just need to define which software to use
>> and then we should just roll up our sleeves and start making this real.
>>
>> Will wait the next step.
>
> Next step is swapping ideas around on how we can make sure to get a
> clean user database,

Asking everyone to register again can be a working solution?



> on how to make a central management "console" for
> that and on how to best plugin different applications into that.
>


why don't we simple use a normal LDAP istance? and why don't we have
a look at existing LDAP management consoles like Mango [1] or FAS?

Building one from scratch is definitely not an easy work, so it would be
the best to use an existing and tested solutions.

Andrea

[1] http://git.gnome.org/browse/mango
[2] https://fedorahosted.org/fas/
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:12 AM
Andreas Rogge
 
Default Website Version 2, next steps

Am 20.02.2011 02:03, schrieb James Hogarth:
> The instance should be properly indexing cname (or whichever value anyway).

Yes, of course.

>
> The real question is the value used for login... and I would suggest a
> simple username as opposed to email to make email changing easier and
> would not cause/require a reindex.

We do not intend to use the e-mail address as a username. We just intend
to identify users in the different legacy account databases based on that.

For example:
I got a wiki-account "AndreasRogge" with my e-mail address
I got a bugs.c.o account "arogge" with my e-mail address
I'm subscribed to the lists with my e-mail address

So the easiest way to identify all my centos accounts in all legacy
databases is to look for my e-mail address.
This probably works for most users since most people probably just use
one mail-address for everything that's related to centos. For those who
don't we will probably send out a reminder and ask them to make sure all
their accounts have the same address before we merge.
The people who are not merged correctly and end up with multiple
accounts will have to call "support" to merge their accounts manually.

After the Databases are merged you can (probably) continue to log in
using your old username (assuming there were no name-clashes), but you
now use the same password for everything and you will be able to use
that account for all new CentOS' applications (the Wiki will use the
same password, but keep the wikiname-syntax FirstnameLastname).

Eventually we will end up with an account system that contains an e-mail
address, a wikiname (for the wiki), a username (for "everything else")
and a password.

Besides the merge itself the mail-address won't be used as "username" or
"primary key" anywhere it wasn't used before (i.e. mailman).

Regards,
Andreas

--
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Egermannstr. 6-8
53359 Rheinbach

Tel: +49 2226 158179-0
Fax: +49 2226 158179-9

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Old 02-21-2011, 11:29 AM
Andreas Rogge
 
Default Website Version 2, next steps

Am 20.02.2011 20:25, schrieb Andrea Veri:
>
> Il giorno 18/feb/2011, alle ore 21.20, Ralph Angenendt ha scritto:
>
>> Am 18.02.11 18:23, schrieb Andrea Veri:
>>
>>> I agree with all the above. We just need to define which software to use
>>> and then we should just roll up our sleeves and start making this real.
>>>
>>> Will wait the next step.
>>
>> Next step is swapping ideas around on how we can make sure to get a
>> clean user database,
>
> Asking everyone to register again can be a working solution?
>
Yeah, but that would break the user's history and ACL. For me it seems
too much Web 2.0 to be considered for Enterprise Linux

>
>> on how to make a central management "console" for
>> that and on how to best plugin different applications into that.
>>
>
>
> why don't we simple use a normal LDAP istance? and why don't we have
> a look at existing LDAP management consoles like Mango [1] or FAS?

We need a self-service console which works for our existing applications
and can - for example - solve "the wikiname problem" (i.e. different
usernames based on the application accessed)
We want to start out with a plain LDAP because it is widely supported by
the applications we intend to use. We can still move somewhere else
later as long as that one supports ldap-queries (i.e. IPA, Mango, whatever).
The problem I see with FAS is that we'd need to change our applications
to support it. For ldap it is usually just a few configuration-switches.

>
> Building one from scratch is definitely not an easy work, so it would be
> the best to use an existing and tested solutions.
Depends. There are centos people who are quite into ldap and while we
need some weird stuff the whole thing is rather simple.

Regards,
Andreas

--
Solvention Ltd. & Co. KG
Egermannstr. 6-8
53359 Rheinbach

Tel: +49 2226 158179-0
Fax: +49 2226 158179-9

http://www.solvention.de
mailto:info@solvention.de
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:08 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default Website Version 2, next steps

On 02/21/2011 12:29 PM, Andreas Rogge wrote:
>> Building one from scratch is definitely not an easy work, so it would be
>> the best to use an existing and tested solutions.
> Depends. There are centos people who are quite into ldap and while we
> need some weird stuff the whole thing is rather simple.

I agree with this. the level of complexity introduced by trying to
wrangle an existing solution into working for the various properties /
resources we have might be a lot higher than just doing something simple
from scratch.

- KB
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