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Old 07-17-2010, 10:54 PM
Sven-Hendrik Haase
 
Default moving winw-wow64 into community

The package-magician heftig managed to put together a wine-wow64
package which is currently in AUR and enables users to not only run
32bit Windows application on x86_64 Arch like bin32-wine but also 64bit
Windows applications.
Basically, it contains a 32bit and 64bit Windows environment to do this,
a lot like native 64bit Windows installations do, in fact.

We'd like to see this package replace bin32-wine in community. It is
currently rather untested and before moving we'd like to ask the Arch
community to test it first. Before we ask for the test though we first
wanted to hear the dear opinions of this mailing list's fine gentlemen.

Sadly, using it also implies moving a bunch of lib32s and the cross32
chain into community. This will be a problem for some people.

To summarize: wine-wow64 is like bin32-wine but with the ability to run
64bit applications.

-- Sven-Hendrik
 
Old 07-18-2010, 12:17 AM
Thomas Dziedzic
 
Default moving winw-wow64 into community

On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Sven-Hendrik Haase <sh@lutzhaase.com> wrote:
> *The package-magician heftig managed to put together a wine-wow64
> package which is currently in AUR and enables users to not only run
> 32bit Windows application on x86_64 Arch like bin32-wine but also 64bit
> Windows applications.
> Basically, it contains a 32bit and 64bit Windows environment to do this,
> a lot like native 64bit Windows installations do, in fact.
>
Great, more windows bloat in the community.

> We'd like to see this package replace bin32-wine in community. It is
> currently rather untested and before moving we'd like to ask the Arch
> community to test it first. Before we ask for the test though we first
> wanted to hear the dear opinions of this mailing list's fine gentlemen.
>
> Sadly, using it also implies moving a bunch of lib32s and the cross32
> chain into community. This will be a problem for some people.
>
I hate any kind of lib32-* package and moving more to community will
just make me grr.

> To summarize: wine-wow64 is like bin32-wine but with the ability to run
> 64bit applications.
>
Aren't windows applications almost all 32bit? I remember reading
somewhere that most applications for 64 bit windows are still 32 bit.

> -- Sven-Hendrik
>
It's not you, it's wine-wow64 :P
 
Old 07-18-2010, 12:52 AM
Ranguvar
 
Default moving winw-wow64 into community

On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 17:17, Thomas Dziedzic <gostrc@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Sven-Hendrik Haase <sh@lutzhaase.com> wrote:
>> *The package-magician heftig managed to put together a wine-wow64
>> package which is currently in AUR and enables users to not only run
>> 32bit Windows application on x86_64 Arch like bin32-wine but also 64bit
>> Windows applications.
>> Basically, it contains a 32bit and 64bit Windows environment to do this,
>> a lot like native 64bit Windows installations do, in fact.
>>
> Great, more windows bloat in the community.
>
>> We'd like to see this package replace bin32-wine in community. It is
>> currently rather untested and before moving we'd like to ask the Arch
>> community to test it first. Before we ask for the test though we first
>> wanted to hear the dear opinions of this mailing list's fine gentlemen.
>>
>> Sadly, using it also implies moving a bunch of lib32s and the cross32
>> chain into community. This will be a problem for some people.
>>
> I hate any kind of lib32-* package and moving more to community will
> just make me grr.
>
>> To summarize: wine-wow64 is like bin32-wine but with the ability to run
>> 64bit applications.
>>
> Aren't windows applications almost all 32bit? I remember reading
> somewhere that most applications for 64 bit windows are still 32 bit.
>
>> -- Sven-Hendrik
>>
> It's not you, it's wine-wow64 :P
>

Well, consider it from this perspective:
The purposed wine-wow64 would (if it proves to reliably serve all
purposes the other did) replace bin32-wine, which is now in
[community].
And while you may dislike it, it's certainly better than a bin32-*!
 
Old 07-18-2010, 03:49 AM
Isaac Dupree
 
Default moving winw-wow64 into community

On 07/17/10 18:54, Sven-Hendrik Haase wrote:

The package-magician heftig managed to put together a wine-wow64
package which is currently in AUR and enables users to not only run
32bit Windows application on x86_64 Arch like bin32-wine but also 64bit
Windows applications.
Basically, it contains a 32bit and 64bit Windows environment to do this,
a lot like native 64bit Windows installations do, in fact.

We'd like to see this package replace bin32-wine in community. [...]
Sadly, using it also implies moving a bunch of lib32s and the cross32
chain into community. This will be a problem for some people.


Can the magic used by heftig to make "wine-wow64" also alternatively be
used to improve* the "bin32-wine" pkgbuild's functionality without
adding the 64bit functionality? Just curious. *Since the 'improvement'
would depend on a bunch of lib32s/cross32, some would think it's not an
improvement. I don't personally mind having those things in community
(I don't think all the packages in [community] have to represent a
unified philosophy, as long as they don't break each other! These
packages don't stop you from having a chroot, and neither do they force
you to install them if you don't want anything 32bit on your system.)



To summarize: wine-wow64 is like bin32-wine but with the ability to run
64bit applications.


Why is it called "wow64"? Why not something descriptive like
"wine-32-and-64"
or
"wine"
?
In particular does it have anything fundamentally to do with "wow" (I
guess that's "world of warcraft"?)


-Isaac
 
Old 07-18-2010, 05:26 AM
Ranguvar
 
Default moving winw-wow64 into community

On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 20:49, Isaac Dupree
<ml@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
> On 07/17/10 18:54, Sven-Hendrik Haase wrote:
> Why is it called "wow64"? *Why not something descriptive like
> "wine-32-and-64"
> or
> "wine"
> ?
> In particular does it have anything fundamentally to do with "wow" (I guess
> that's "world of warcraft"?)
>
> -Isaac
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WoW64


-- Ranguvar
[Devin Cofer]
 
Old 07-18-2010, 07:10 AM
Isaac Dupree
 
Default moving winw-wow64 into community

On 07/18/10 01:26, Ranguvar wrote:

On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 20:49, Isaac Dupree
<ml@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:

On 07/17/10 18:54, Sven-Hendrik Haase wrote:
Why is it called "wow64"? Why not something descriptive like
"wine-32-and-64"
or
"wine"
?
In particular does it have anything fundamentally to do with "wow" (I guess
that's "world of warcraft"?)

-Isaac



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WoW64



...wow. (a bad pun to express how I feel about that naming. But
Thanks for that link, it actually explains what wine-wow64 is doing a
bit better than I was able to make sense of from the original message...
this wine-wow64 is copying some particular oddity of Windows 64! (I
wonder, Maybe it could still be called just "wine" though..I haven't
been tracking upstream Wine closely enough to see what their thoughts on
64-bit have been recently. But, not if "wine" refers to a wholly
different package in Arch Linux (i686 only - which I can't find out much
about because I've never had an i686 Arch system but I thought something
fishy was going on - normally packages are equally available on all two
arches))


oh, so more info at http://wiki.winehq.org/Wine64 , it says 64bits
version "is not yet fully functional", and for 32bit part of WoW64 "The
32-bit side of such a Wow64 build is in theory supposed to work
identically to a stand-alone 32-bit build. Currently this is not quite
the case, any help is welcome." so... it may not be ready to replace
bin32-wine if the upstream wiki-page is up-to-date (last edit this
April..so maybe it is)
 
Old 07-18-2010, 01:32 PM
Sven-Hendrik Haase
 
Default moving winw-wow64 into community

On 18.07.2010 09:10, Isaac Dupree wrote:
>
> oh, so more info at http://wiki.winehq.org/Wine64 , it says 64bits
> version "is not yet fully functional", and for 32bit part of WoW64
> "The 32-bit side of such a Wow64 build is in theory supposed to work
> identically to a stand-alone 32-bit build. Currently this is not quite
> the case, any help is welcome." so... it may not be ready to replace
> bin32-wine if the upstream wiki-page is up-to-date (last edit this
> April..so maybe it is)
>
>From my limited testing it appears as though it is quite functional
though. I suggested we have the community test these first and I stepped
ahead and made a forums post
(https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=793962#p793962), too.

I'd say that if testing evidence shows that it is indeed too immature
then the decision should be a quick one. However, if it turns out to be
working quite well, the only thing holding this back is inclusion of the
dependencies which we are also discussing on this list.

-- Sven-Hendrik
 

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