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Old 12-17-2009, 12:12 AM
Laszlo Papp
 
Default Voting for djszapi results

> I think you wrong to begin the vote procedure without a discussion
> period. Ok, we had that, but no one TU posted nothing about and this
> should warn you.

I tried to contact with some TUs who took me constructive critics in
the first application, and they gave me positive feedbacks by now (but
maybe they will answer too).

I think a silent discussion period in this case could give chances to
hope in a successful voting period instead of warning us (me and
Sergej), because if there was any problem with someone in the past
that was explained in the discussion period to clarify it, because
that's why discussion period exists Some TUs reassured me
meanwhile, so I really hoped because I love Archlinux :P

> Though I voted 'abstain' I am sorry for Laszlo, but seems that Arch is
> not his way. After the 'big fails' (the first application) he did a
> bad impression and bad impressions are hard to clean.

You're right Andrea, I did some mistakes when I entered the archlinux
community, and I've felt its effect, but recently I think the
situation has changed, I experienced it from the feedbacks. (or at
least I tried to change it :P).

'bad impressions are hard to clean' -> I imagined when I was child and
a really bad boy huhh, I caused so much problems for my parents, I
feel sorry them , but we love each other since then, and I think the
forgiveness is good human feature if the person can do it.

I guess Sergej's purpose (and me too) was with this discussion for me
to know where you, TUs see my weeknesses so that I will be able to
improve it.

Anyway, thanks everything and for everybody who voted anyway, mainly
for Sergej whose time I exploited

Best Regards,
Laszlo Papp
 
Old 12-17-2009, 12:22 AM
Ranguvar
 
Default Voting for djszapi results

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

2009/12/16 Sergej Pupykin <pupykin.s@gmail.com>:
> Hello,
>
> the voting period for djszapi has ended, and he did not get the majority
> of votes. He got
>
> Yes: 4
> No: 9
> Abstain: 5
>
> It would be nice if there would be some discussion about the reasons for the
> failure.

I've known djszapi for a few weeks now via IM.
I had not examined his packages in _great_ detail, but in person,
Laszlo appeared quite capable of TU work, especially considering his
extremely active involvement with the AUR2 project.

I do not know of past issues, as I am still fairly new to Arch and
newer to acting as a TU, but there did not seem to be any major
blockers to provent Laszlo from becoming a TU,
and because he seems to have quite a bit of knowledge and dedication,
I voted 'yes' for his approval.

Would someone who was around at the time then please summarize what
issues, if any, were present before? Has Laszlo already applied once
and been rejected, as it seems?

-- Ranguvar
[Devin Cofer]
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:03 AM
Eric Bélanger
 
Default Voting for djszapi results

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Ranguvar <ranguvar@archlinux.us> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> 2009/12/16 Sergej Pupykin <pupykin.s@gmail.com>:
>> Hello,
>>
>> the voting period for djszapi has ended, and he did not get the majority
>> of votes. He got
>>
>> Yes: 4
>> No: 9
>> Abstain: 5
>>
>> It would be nice if there would be some discussion about the reasons for the
>> failure.
>
> I've known djszapi for a few weeks now via IM.
> I had not examined his packages in _great_ detail, but in person,
> Laszlo appeared quite capable of TU work, especially considering his
> extremely active involvement with the AUR2 project.
>
> I do not know of past issues, as I am still fairly new to Arch and
> newer to acting as a TU, but there did not seem to be any major
> blockers to provent Laszlo from becoming a TU,
> and because he seems to have quite a bit of knowledge and dedication,
> I voted 'yes' for his approval.
>
> Would someone who was around at the time then please summarize what
> issues, if any, were present before? *Has Laszlo already applied once
> and been rejected, as it seems?
>
> *-- Ranguvar

Laszlo has previously applied not long ago, maybe a month (search ML
archive). Some concerns were brought up in a somwhat heated (IIRC)
discussion period. Finally, he retracted his candidacy before the
vote. I guess most TU had made up their mind at that point. So this
time, they felt that nothing was left to discuss so everyone just
waited for the voting period.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 10:17 AM
Xyne
 
Default Voting for djszapi results

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:44:39 +0300
Sergej Pupykin <pupykin.s@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> the voting period for djszapi has ended, and he did not get the majority
> of votes. He got
>
> Yes: 4
> No: 9
> Abstain: 5
>
> It would be nice if there would be some discussion about the reasons for the failure.
>
>

I understand the desire to discuss the rejection but this goes against
the very idea of a secret ballot as each TU's reply will indicate how
he or she voted. This may create tension on this list and elsewhere and
I think it should be avoided. As bash has claimed, the answers can most
likely be found in the previous discussion period.

For the future perhaps you can request an additional submission field
for the vote form which would allow voters to include a reason that
could then be cited with the results.

Regards,
Xyne
 
Old 12-17-2009, 11:01 AM
Nathan Wayde
 
Default Voting for djszapi results

On 17/12/09 11:17, Xyne wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:44:39 +0300
Sergej Pupykin<pupykin.s@gmail.com> wrote:


Hello,

the voting period for djszapi has ended, and he did not get the majority
of votes. He got

Yes: 4
No: 9
Abstain: 5

It would be nice if there would be some discussion about the reasons for the failure.




I understand the desire to discuss the rejection but this goes against
the very idea of a secret ballot as each TU's reply will indicate how
he or she voted. This may create tension on this list and elsewhere and
I think it should be avoided. As bash has claimed, the answers can most
likely be found in the previous discussion period.

For the future perhaps you can request an additional submission field
for the vote form which would allow voters to include a reason that
could then be cited with the results.

Regards,
Xyne



nothing stops it being anonymous a second time:
http://konnichi.com/anon-feedback
 
Old 12-17-2009, 11:15 AM
Laszlo Papp
 
Default Voting for djszapi results

> Laszlo has previously applied not long ago, maybe a month *(search ML
> archive). *Some concerns were brought up in a somwhat heated (IIRC)
> discussion period. *Finally, he retracted his candidacy before the
> vote.

4 months ago.

> I guess most TU had made up their mind at that point. *So this
> time, they felt that nothing was left to discuss so everyone just
> waited for the voting period.

I tried to improve myself in this period, and some TUs gave me (more)
positive feedbacks than earlier, so I didn't think it will be the same
situation as 4 months earlier. But I hope it won't take forever until
I will live, hehe :P.

I think archlinux has got good community/projects to spend my leisure
time with it.
Independently from this result, I can continue the AUR2 developing and
Bug Day activities, etc, so that's ok, thanks the responses. :-)

Best Regards,
Laszlo Papp
 
Old 12-17-2009, 11:41 AM
Loui Chang
 
Default Voting for djszapi results

On Thu 17 Dec 2009 12:17 +0100, Xyne wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:44:39 +0300
> Sergej Pupykin <pupykin.s@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > the voting period for djszapi has ended, and he did not get the majority
> > of votes. He got
> >
> > Yes: 4
> > No: 9
> > Abstain: 5
> >
> > It would be nice if there would be some discussion about the reasons for the failure.
>
> I understand the desire to discuss the rejection but this goes against
> the very idea of a secret ballot as each TU's reply will indicate how
> he or she voted. This may create tension on this list and elsewhere and
> I think it should be avoided. As bash has claimed, the answers can most
> likely be found in the previous discussion period.

TU votes were never meant to be secret, it only came about as the
implementation of the voting application. We don't live under a violent
military coup or anything. You should be able to identify with your
thoughts in a free society. The discussion period is there for people to
voice any concerns, if that creates tension - so be it. I hope we aren't
all wimps that can't take a little bit of conflict. I'd like to know
that our Trusted Users are able to voice their opinions and uphold the
Arch Way, etc.

Cheers.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 12:34 PM
Daenyth Blank
 
Default Voting for djszapi results

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 07:15, Laszlo Papp <djszapi@archlinux.us> wrote:
> 4 months ago.
>
>> I guess most TU had made up their mind at that point. *So this
>> time, they felt that nothing was left to discuss so everyone just
>> waited for the voting period.
>
> I tried to improve myself in this period, and some TUs gave me (more)
> positive feedbacks than earlier, so I didn't think it will be the same
> situation as 4 months earlier. But I hope it won't take forever until
> I will live, hehe :P.
>
> I think archlinux has got good community/projects to spend my leisure
> time with it.
> Independently from this result, I can continue the AUR2 developing and
> Bug Day activities, etc, so that's ok, thanks the responses. :-)
>
> Best Regards,
> Laszlo Papp
>

Judging by the level of maturity and calmness shown in this thread, I
think he really has improved since last time. For what it's worth, I
voted to abstain, as I hadn't had much interaction with him either
way. Perhaps next time around I'll change that. I can definitely see
progress here.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 02:37 PM
Ray Rashif
 
Default Voting for djszapi results

2009/12/17 Daenyth Blank <daenyth+arch@gmail.com <daenyth%2Barch@gmail.com>>

> Judging by the level of maturity and calmness shown in this thread, I
> think he really has improved since last time. For what it's worth, I
> voted to abstain, as I hadn't had much interaction with him either
> way. Perhaps next time around I'll change that. I can definitely see
> progress here.
>

I've crossed paths with Laszlo on #archlinux-pacman and have seen some of
his contributions to pacman, and recently he approached me on IRC with
regards to our TU applications; he appeared worried that he may not pass and
was in dire need of sympathy. He gave me the impression that it was some
kind of a race we were participating in, but I assured him TUs won't decide
on anything without good reasons, be it voting NO or YES, and that this is
no competition.

He has the skills, no doubt. He just appears to be too hyper/excited about
things to the extent that his willingness can be sometimes misinterpreted.
Then there is also the language/cultural gap, which I'm sure has been
mentioned before.

Anyway, I'm also sure he will not stop contributing just because of this. So
Laszlo, keep it up!


--
GPG/PGP ID: B42DDCAD
 
Old 12-17-2009, 06:31 PM
Xyne
 
Default Voting for djszapi results

> TU votes were never meant to be secret, it only came about as the
> implementation of the voting application. We don't live under a violent
> military coup or anything. You should be able to identify with your
> thoughts in a free society. The discussion period is there for people to
> voice any concerns, if that creates tension - so be it. I hope we aren't
> all wimps that can't take a little bit of conflict. I'd like to know
> that our Trusted Users are able to voice their opinions and uphold the
> Arch Way, etc.
>
> Cheers.

That's a nice strawman argument which completely disregards social
psychology and the real reason for secret ballots, even if a TU vote
means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of the universe. You're
also confusing the discussion period with post-electoral discussion,
which are two very different things. Invoking others to "uphold the Arch
Way" in this context is completely without meaning and seems to be
nothing more than a baseless emotional appeal that goes hand-in-hand
with the previous strawman argument. I'm actually surprised to see such
a crude statement.

If you really feel that way, change the TU interface to make the voting
public and display each TU's vote next to his or her name.

Now, as I wouldn't want Loui to think I'm a wimp, I had better confess
that I abstained from the vote and explain why, despite the fact that I
consider this unproductive.

I simply didn't feel strongly enough either way. As already mentioned,
it is quite apparent that Laszlo is technically competent but the
concerns raised in the last discussion period have not completely
vanished. Laszlo sent me an email about a month ago to ask if I had
noticed any improvement concerning issues that had been previously
raised, to which I replied that I had noticed a change in behavior and
that I was sure others had noticed as well. I also mentioned a minor
point which I had noticed. Simultaneous though the email itself was
reminiscent of the way that the first application was approached and I
asked myself how many other TUs he had approached with a similar email
in order to garner sympathy.

I stand by my reply to Laszlo in that I think he is on the right path
but I was still hesitant to vote yes and thus abstained in order to
leave the vote to others who have stronger opinions.

I'll end this here before I suppress the wimp in me and flesh out my
reply to Loui's post.
 

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