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Old 09-29-2012, 03:53 AM
 
Default Mailing list closed for 24 hours

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 02:16:23AM +0800, Gaetan Bisson wrote:
> [2012-09-28 12:01:01 +0200] Nicolas Sebrecht:
> > The 28/09/12, Gaetan Bisson wrote:
> >
> > > We have recently seen on this very mailing list that for every person
> > > posting considerate opinions, there are dozens who just pollute threads
> > > with fear, uncertainty, doubt, and just sheer incompetence.
> >
> > I'm very confident that an open dev mailing list with topic-oriented
> > policy would just work. I'm so confident because this is how the Gentoo
> > dev mailing list works and it works well.
>
> So, essentially, you have no arguments except that "it should just work
> like it does for Gentoo"; yet you've posted in this thread five times
> only to repeat the above. But, of course, if our topic of discussion
> were to be technical, your stubbornness (and the resulting noise) would
> magically go away, right?
>
> --
> Gaetan

All,

I agree with Gaetan. Saying this will 'just work' is like saying that
magic exists. It's not going to 'just work,' as you say. I have followed
arch-dev-public for a few months now, and I appreciate the on topic
discussion that happens there, though sometimes I want to contact the
devs to bring something up or ask a question on it. I'd like to just
throw out a few ideas:

1) Create a screening process for people, applications they need to turn
in, etc. to be able to post on the dev list. Taking into account
that it could take up a lot of valuable dev time sorting through
these to get to the meat and potatoes, there could even be a sub
pannel of 'trusted mailing list users' (possibly made up of the
people accepted onto the mailing list that are not official
devs) that pre-screen to filter out obvious spam/trolls.

2) Allow poeple to email arch-dev-public, but only allow their mail to
go through if it is approved. I would rather see something like
number 1 put into effect, as it would reduce the time devs need
to spend going through mail, but it is still an option in my
mind.

3) Keep arch-dev-public the way it is, and let people use other means of
communication (a la IRC) and create a specific dev channel so
that users can contact even just one dev with input, and if that
dev sees fit, he can include it in the next mail to
arch-dev-public (basically just another way of screening things)

I would think that both 1 and 3 could be implemented and both parties
would be appeased.

Thank you,

KaiSforza
 
Old 09-30-2012, 03:25 AM
Oon-Ee Ng
 
Default Mailing list closed for 24 hours

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 11:53 AM, <1007380@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> ...sometimes I want to contact the
> devs to bring something up or ask a question on it.

There's a bug tracker where you can directly contact maintainers, for
bugs/feature requests. For 'questions' I'd think that's not really the
responsibility of the maintainers/devs/TUs.

Example:-
1. Program A crashes when I do X
2. Why is this configure flag not enabled for library B?
3. The documentation-supplied config for application C doesn't run.
4. How do I set up a server using D?
5. Why was this decision made for application/library E?

1, 2, and 3 are suitable for the bug tracker (maybe more suitable for
upstream bug tracker though, in some cases). 4 should not be directed
at devs or TUs, ever. 5, depending on content, is a feature request or
a topic going nowhere (hence TGN in the forums).

I do not support the opening of arch-dev-public (its supposed to be an
announcement list) nor the creation of any other channel for devs to
be contacted. Its the community's responsibility to keep arch-general
clean enough that devs/TUs don't quit it. arch-discussion etc. would
not help simply because in general the endless topics ARE initially
technical, and most of us have a fuzzy line between technical topics
and our personal opinions on them anyway.
 
Old 09-30-2012, 04:36 AM
Nicholas MIller
 
Default Mailing list closed for 24 hours

On Sep 29, 2012 10:26 PM, "Oon-Ee Ng" <ngoonee.talk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 11:53 AM, <1007380@gmail.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> > ...sometimes I want to contact the
> > devs to bring something up or ask a question on it.
>
> There's a bug tracker where you can directly contact maintainers, for
> bugs/feature requests. For 'questions' I'd think that's not really the
> responsibility of the maintainers/devs/TUs.
>
> Example:-
> 1. Program A crashes when I do X
> 2. Why is this configure flag not enabled for library B?
> 3. The documentation-supplied config for application C doesn't run.
> 4. How do I set up a server using D?
> 5. Why was this decision made for application/library E?
>
> 1, 2, and 3 are suitable for the bug tracker (maybe more suitable for
> upstream bug tracker though, in some cases). 4 should not be directed
> at devs or TUs, ever. 5, depending on content, is a feature request or
> a topic going nowhere (hence TGN in the forums).
>
> I do not support the opening of arch-dev-public (its supposed to be an
> announcement list) nor the creation of any other channel for devs to
> be contacted. Its the community's responsibility to keep arch-general
> clean enough that devs/TUs don't quit it. arch-discussion etc. would
> not help simply because in general the endless topics ARE initially
> technical, and most of us have a fuzzy line between technical topics
> and our personal opinions on them anyway.

When i first say the suggestion of another list (discussion)i thought it
might be a good idea however

The line between technical and opinion usually seem the same at the start
 
Old 09-30-2012, 11:07 PM
Guus Snijders
 
Default Mailing list closed for 24 hours

Op 30 sep. 2012 06:37 schreef "Nicholas MIller" <nick.kyky@gmail.com> het
volgende:
>
> On Sep 29, 2012 10:26 PM, "Oon-Ee Ng" <ngoonee.talk@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 11:53 AM, <1007380@gmail.com> wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > ...sometimes I want to contact the
> > > devs to bring something up or ask a question on it.
> >
> > There's a bug tracker where you can directly contact maintainers, for
> > bugs/feature requests. For 'questions' I'd think that's not really the
> > responsibility of the maintainers/devs/TUs.
> >
> > Example:-
> > 1. Program A crashes when I do X
> > 2. Why is this configure flag not enabled for library B?
> > 3. The documentation-supplied config for application C doesn't run.
> > 4. How do I set up a server using D?
> > 5. Why was this decision made for application/library E?
> >
> > 1, 2, and 3 are suitable for the bug tracker (maybe more suitable for
> > upstream bug tracker though, in some cases). 4 should not be directed
> > at devs or TUs, ever. 5, depending on content, is a feature request or
> > a topic going nowhere (hence TGN in the forums).
> >
> > I do not support the opening of arch-dev-public (its supposed to be an
> > announcement list) nor the creation of any other channel for devs to
> > be contacted. Its the community's responsibility to keep arch-general
> > clean enough that devs/TUs don't quit it. arch-discussion etc. would
> > not help simply because in general the endless topics ARE initially
> > technical, and most of us have a fuzzy line between technical topics
> > and our personal opinions on them anyway.
>
> When i first say the suggestion of another list (discussion)i thought it
> might be a good idea however
>
> The line between technical and opinion usually seem the same at the start

+1 from me.

There are sometimes quite interesting details mentioned in the OT threads.
A -discuss list would be a good place for those, without cluttering
-general.
(yes, i'm being an optimist here ;-).

Opening dev-public would take some serious manpower. I see a little
advantage but quite an investment (manpower, not financial). Better leave
it as-is.

Mvg, Guus
 
Old 10-01-2012, 01:29 AM
Oon-Ee Ng
 
Default Mailing list closed for 24 hours

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Guus Snijders <gsnijders@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There are sometimes quite interesting details mentioned in the OT threads.
> A -discuss list would be a good place for those, without cluttering
> -general.
> (yes, i'm being an optimist here ;-).
>
> Opening dev-public would take some serious manpower. I see a little
> advantage but quite an investment (manpower, not financial). Better leave
> it as-is.

This is Arch, after all. Someone could just start a
community-supported-and-maintained arch-unofficial-discuss list. Might
be a good way for those who want to contribute but don't have the
technical skills needed by devs/TUs to actually do something
Arch-related.

It would need to be clearly labelled as unofficial, and marketing that
list would be tough, but the benefits are:-
a) devs/TUs not distracted from their primary roles
b) community involvement
AND if it actually gains traction:-
c) a place would exist for non-technical discussion (above and beyond the IRC)

Of course, if such a list was unmoderated and became a flame fest most
would just unsubscribe, but if too heavily moderated noone would be
interested as well... good luck =)
 

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