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-   -   Arch-general is becoming a mess ! (http://www.linux-archive.org/archlinux-general-discussion/694386-arch-general-becoming-mess.html)

fredbezies 08-15-2012 08:02 PM

Arch-general is becoming a mess !
 
Hello.

I'm an old archlinux user (first installation back in december 2008),
and for a long time, I was very satisfied with arch-general. But some
people - can we define them as bottom holes ? - are rotting this
mailing list, and the community too.

Last threads on systemd was useless. And I can understand that every
single developer will unsuscribe. As a user, I will do so too. I think
archlinux community needs a little clean up and kick the bottom of
people who are not arguing but messing lists.

I won't post anymore on this list, but I wanted to express my mind here.

Please, excuse my bad english, it is 10 pm where I live.

--
Frederic Bezies
fredbezies@gmail.com

set 08-15-2012 08:56 PM

Arch-general is becoming a mess !
 
Le mercredi 15 août 2012 22:02:57 fredbezies a écrit :
> Hello.
>
> I'm an old archlinux user (first installation back in december 2008),
> and for a long time, I was very satisfied with arch-general. But some
> people - can we define them as bottom holes ? - are rotting this
> mailing list, and the community too.
>
> Last threads on systemd was useless. And I can understand that every
> single developer will unsuscribe. As a user, I will do so too. I think
> archlinux community needs a little clean up and kick the bottom of
> people who are not arguing but messing lists.
>
> I won't post anymore on this list, but I wanted to express my mind here.
>
> Please, excuse my bad english, it is 10 pm where I live.

Aren't there any moderators who can kick off trouble makers ?

Oon-Ee Ng 08-15-2012 10:33 PM

Arch-general is becoming a mess !
 
On 16 Aug 2012 04:57, "set" <nmset@netcourrier.com> wrote:
>
> Le mercredi 15 août 2012 22:02:57 fredbezies a écrit :
> > Hello.
> >
> > I'm an old archlinux user (first installation back in december 2008),
> > and for a long time, I was very satisfied with arch-general. But some
> > people - can we define them as bottom holes ? - are rotting this
> > mailing list, and the community too.
> >
> > Last threads on systemd was useless. And I can understand that every
> > single developer will unsuscribe. As a user, I will do so too. I think
> > archlinux community needs a little clean up and kick the bottom of
> > people who are not arguing but messing lists.
> >
> > I won't post anymore on this list, but I wanted to express my mind here.
> >
> > Please, excuse my bad english, it is 10 pm where I live.
>
> Aren't there any moderators who can kick off trouble makers ?
>
That's not how MLs work. Unfortunately

Denis A. Altoé Falqueto 08-16-2012 01:00 AM

Arch-general is becoming a mess !
 
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Oon-Ee Ng <ngoonee.talk@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 16 Aug 2012 04:57, "set" <nmset@netcourrier.com> wrote:
>> Aren't there any moderators who can kick off trouble makers ?
>>
> That's not how MLs work. Unfortunately

I think there are list management software that can allows moderation
But there should be someone willing to cope with that boring task of
being the gate keeper.

I really think that we should ban peopple more often (if there was a
temporary ban, even better).

--
A: Because it obfuscates the reading.
Q: Why is top posting so bad?
For more information, please read: http://idallen.com/topposting.html

-------------------------------------------
Denis A. Altoe Falqueto
Linux user #524555
-------------------------------------------

Oon-Ee Ng 08-16-2012 01:06 AM

Arch-general is becoming a mess !
 
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Denis A. Altoé Falqueto
<denisfalqueto@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Oon-Ee Ng <ngoonee.talk@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 16 Aug 2012 04:57, "set" <nmset@netcourrier.com> wrote:
>>> Aren't there any moderators who can kick off trouble makers ?
>>>
>> That's not how MLs work. Unfortunately
>
> I think there are list management software that can allows moderation
> But there should be someone willing to cope with that boring task of
> being the gate keeper.
>
> I really think that we should ban peopple more often (if there was a
> temporary ban, even better).

We already have a moderated channel. Its called the Arch forums
(bbs.archlinux.org). Unfortunately the SNR there is worse than here
(speaking as a mod), at least prior to this systemd/LP stuff.

Advantages of forums - at least 3 of those posting here on the ML
would have been given a short holiday for type of post.

Disadvantage - to put it bluntly, too many clueless users. Not that it
seems the ML is any different these last few days.

Choose your poison.

Jeremiah Dodds 08-16-2012 04:53 AM

Arch-general is becoming a mess !
 
Oon-Ee Ng <ngoonee.talk@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Denis A. Altoé Falqueto
> <denisfalqueto@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Oon-Ee Ng <ngoonee.talk@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 16 Aug 2012 04:57, "set" <nmset@netcourrier.com> wrote:
>>>> Aren't there any moderators who can kick off trouble makers ?
>>>>
>>> That's not how MLs work. Unfortunately
>>
>> I think there are list management software that can allows moderation
>> But there should be someone willing to cope with that boring task of
>> being the gate keeper.
>>
>> I really think that we should ban peopple more often (if there was a
>> temporary ban, even better).
>
> We already have a moderated channel. Its called the Arch forums
> (bbs.archlinux.org). Unfortunately the SNR there is worse than here
> (speaking as a mod), at least prior to this systemd/LP stuff.
>
> Advantages of forums - at least 3 of those posting here on the ML
> would have been given a short holiday for type of post.
>
> Disadvantage - to put it bluntly, too many clueless users. Not that it
> seems the ML is any different these last few days.
>
> Choose your poison.

I tend to prefer systems that provide mailing lists and forums as two
separate frontends to the same data.

As far as ML noise goes, that's what killfiles and client-side filters
are for, no? People can (or at least should be able to) configure their
mailreaders to mute people or topics they want to mute.

--
Jeremiah Dodds

blog : http://jdodds.github.com
github : https://github.com/jdodds
freenode : exhortatory
twitter : kaens

Thomas Rand 08-16-2012 05:59 AM

Arch-general is becoming a mess !
 
On 16 August 2012 06:53, Jeremiah Dodds <jeremiah.dodds@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oon-Ee Ng <ngoonee.talk@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Denis A. Altoé Falqueto
>> <denisfalqueto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Oon-Ee Ng <ngoonee.talk@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 16 Aug 2012 04:57, "set" <nmset@netcourrier.com> wrote:
>>>>> Aren't there any moderators who can kick off trouble makers ?
>>>>>
>>>> That's not how MLs work. Unfortunately
>>>
>>> I think there are list management software that can allows moderation
>>> But there should be someone willing to cope with that boring task of
>>> being the gate keeper.
>>>
>>> I really think that we should ban peopple more often (if there was a
>>> temporary ban, even better).
>>
>> We already have a moderated channel. Its called the Arch forums
>> (bbs.archlinux.org). Unfortunately the SNR there is worse than here
>> (speaking as a mod), at least prior to this systemd/LP stuff.
>>
>> Advantages of forums - at least 3 of those posting here on the ML
>> would have been given a short holiday for type of post.
>>
>> Disadvantage - to put it bluntly, too many clueless users. Not that it
>> seems the ML is any different these last few days.
>>
>> Choose your poison.
>
> I tend to prefer systems that provide mailing lists and forums as two
> separate frontends to the same data.
>
> As far as ML noise goes, that's what killfiles and client-side filters
> are for, no? People can (or at least should be able to) configure their
> mailreaders to mute people or topics they want to mute.
>
> --
> Jeremiah Dodds
>
> blog : http://jdodds.github.com
> github : https://github.com/jdodds
> freenode : exhortatory
> twitter : kaens


this mailing list has only become a mess because people are intent on
voicing the pointless opinions on systemd & it's creator which has
forced the dev to unsubscribe due to the sheer pointlessness of the
noise being created.

To me it is all beginning like the south park scene:
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble



--
Regards
Thomas Rand

Dennis Herbrich 08-16-2012 06:10 AM

Arch-general is becoming a mess !
 
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:53:02AM -0400, Jeremiah Dodds wrote:
> As far as ML noise goes, that's what killfiles and client-side filters
> are for, no? People can (or at least should be able to) configure their
> mailreaders to mute people or topics they want to mute.

This. This so very much.

We're all consenting adults here. Just hit that delete button, ESC-d, Del or
adjust your scorefile/junk filter, and enjoy a quiet evening in your very own
bubble of comfortable reality without dissenting opinions! ;)

Seriously, the list isn't a *mess*. It's very carefully structured flaming,
even sticking to the topic! Heck, it HAS a topic! You'd *love* to have that
back once the professional trolls arrive and post ALL OVER THE LIST with
anonymous addresses, proxied IPs with new subjects all the time and broken
Reply-To headers, making selective filtering nearly impossible for the
uninitiated.

Please keep in mind that just deleting a post that aggravates you is very, very
easily done, even more so if a whole thread is basically derailed and doesn't
deserve attention. Instead of asking for moderation, just continue posting
worthwile stuff yourself, improving the signal instead of reducing the noise,
so to speak. And remember to not feed the trolls. Life goes on.

Yeah, that's one smart-ass long-term lurker talking here about improving signal
quality with a useless meta-post. :P

I, for one, will surely stay subscribed, and would advise against a knee-jerk
moderation implementation. The "old man" forwarding is already happening
informally in a way, too, with topics started here being picked up in arch-dev.

Have a nice day, everyone!
Dennis

--
"Den Rechtsstaat macht aus, dass Unschuldige wieder frei kommen."
Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble, Bundesinnenminister (14.10.08, TAZ-Interview)

0D21BE6C - F3DC D064 BB88 5162 56BE 730F 5471 3881 0D21 BE6C

Jeremiah Dodds 08-16-2012 06:54 AM

Arch-general is becoming a mess !
 
Thomas Rand <tom@tomsbox.co.uk> writes:

> On 16 August 2012 06:53, Jeremiah Dodds <jeremiah.dodds@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I tend to prefer systems that provide mailing lists and forums as two
>> separate frontends to the same data.
>>
>> As far as ML noise goes, that's what killfiles and client-side filters
>> are for, no? People can (or at least should be able to) configure their
>> mailreaders to mute people or topics they want to mute.
>>
>
>
> this mailing list has only become a mess because people are intent on
> voicing the pointless opinions on systemd & it's creator which has
> forced the dev to unsubscribe due to the sheer pointlessness of the
> noise being created.
>
> ...
>
> (repeated "rabble" snipped)

A: No one *forced* the dev to do anything.
B: If it's noise to you, kill or filter out the threads in your reader.
C: Don't complain about the ML being a mess and then paste a paragraph's
worth of the same word.

--
Jeremiah Dodds

blog : http://jdodds.github.com
github : https://github.com/jdodds
freenode : exhortatory
twitter : kaens

Thomas Rand 08-16-2012 07:10 AM

Arch-general is becoming a mess !
 
On 16 August 2012 08:54, Jeremiah Dodds <jeremiah.dodds@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thomas Rand <tom@tomsbox.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On 16 August 2012 06:53, Jeremiah Dodds <jeremiah.dodds@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I tend to prefer systems that provide mailing lists and forums as two
>>> separate frontends to the same data.
>>>
>>> As far as ML noise goes, that's what killfiles and client-side filters
>>> are for, no? People can (or at least should be able to) configure their
>>> mailreaders to mute people or topics they want to mute.
>>>
>>
>>
>> this mailing list has only become a mess because people are intent on
>> voicing the pointless opinions on systemd & it's creator which has
>> forced the dev to unsubscribe due to the sheer pointlessness of the
>> noise being created.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> (repeated "rabble" snipped)
>
> A: No one *forced* the dev to do anything.
oh sorry was that a wrong word choice!!!!!!!(sorry repeated char)
either way the dev has gone else where
> B: If it's noise to you, kill or filter out the threads in your reader.
how about the OP takes his argument to another place considering they
are off topic & here to insight argument. The only on topic part was
that systemd is coming to arch the rest is pointless noise which
itself should have been else where.
> C: Don't complain about the ML being a mess and then paste a paragraph's
> worth of the same word.
that was an attempt at humour sorry if you did not like it & if you do
not like south park but it is true

If it were my ML i would have deleted it & sent a msg to the op telling him why.
This ML is for general support not a cacophony of opinions on
something which at that point in time had not been decided upon which
has resulted in this ML becoming a mess.

Again sorry if you did not get my light hearted joke from south park
but I thought it kinda summed up the situation.


>
> --
> Jeremiah Dodds
>
> blog : http://jdodds.github.com
> github : https://github.com/jdodds
> freenode : exhortatory
> twitter : kaens



--
Regards
Thomas Rand


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