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Old 08-16-2012, 03:28 PM
Heiko Baums
 
Default Arch-general is becoming a mess !

Am Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:08:53 +0200
schrieb Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org>:

> This is a technical mailing list. If you want to discuss technical
> topics about Arch, you're in the right place. If you want to state
> your _opinion_, get yourself a blog.

And if this opinion is about something going on (for the better or for
the worse) in Arch Linux? If I have concerns about systemd for good
reasons, even if they are not "technical" but, say if you like,
"personal"? Well, the "personal" concerns can easily become "technical"
ones sooner or later. See PA. Blaming ALSA for PA's bugs. What if this
will happen with systemd, too? And I bet this will happen sooner or
later.

Shall I really shut up or open my own blog, which the Arch devs, TUs
and other users for sure won't know or read? Or would it be better to
say my opinion on this "technical" mailing list, so that people can
think about that before probably doing a mistake?

Heiko
 
Old 08-16-2012, 03:47 PM
Anthony 'Ishpeck' Tedjamulia
 
Default Arch-general is becoming a mess !

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 03:15:36PM +0200, Thomas B?chler wrote:
> > That's not more pragmatic,
>
> It is. Person X is annoying everyone, so person X can't post any longer.

You seem to be conflating pragmatism with bigotry.

Those of us who are used to the internet don't get annoyed
by other peoples' silliness.
 
Old 08-16-2012, 03:50 PM
Calvin Morrison
 
Default Arch-general is becoming a mess !

On 16 August 2012 11:47, Anthony 'Ishpeck' Tedjamulia
<archlinux@ishpeck.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 03:15:36PM +0200, Thomas B?chler wrote:
>> > That's not more pragmatic,
>>
>> It is. Person X is annoying everyone, so person X can't post any longer.
>
> You seem to be conflating pragmatism with bigotry.
>
> Those of us who are used to the internet don't get annoyed
> by other peoples' silliness.
>

This is sort of how I feel about Tom and other who have gotten very
upset and taken leave of the list.

http://xkcd.com/386/
 
Old 08-16-2012, 03:56 PM
Gaetan Bisson
 
Default Arch-general is becoming a mess !

[2012-08-16 17:28:03 +0200] Heiko Baums:
> If I have concerns about systemd for good
> reasons, even if they are not "technical" but, say if you like,
> "personal"?

Why would any of us care about your personal life?

> Well, the "personal" concerns can easily become "technical"
> ones sooner or later. See PA. Blaming ALSA for PA's bugs. What if this
> will happen with systemd, too? And I bet this will happen sooner or
> later.

Your head must be such as mess if you can make sense of the above...

> Shall I really shut up or open my own blog, which the Arch devs, TUs
> and other users for sure won't know or read?

Do either. And when you have five seconds please reflect on why none of
us would read your blog...

> Or would it be better to
> say my opinion on this "technical" mailing list, so that people can
> think about that before probably doing a mistake?

Our mistake is to read your messages.

--
Gaetan
 
Old 08-16-2012, 03:59 PM
Anthony 'Ishpeck' Tedjamulia
 
Default Arch-general is becoming a mess !

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:50:20AM -0400, Calvin Morrison wrote:
> On 16 August 2012 11:47, Anthony 'Ishpeck' Tedjamulia
> <archlinux@ishpeck.net> wrote:
> > Those of us who are used to the internet don't get annoyed
> > by other peoples' silliness.
>
> This is sort of how I feel about Tom and other who have gotten very
> upset and taken leave of the list.

I don't really blame him. His goal, in reading the list, is to help
those who need technical support in the stuff he works on. His goal
is not to have philosophical arguments with people about software he
has no intention on working on.

If we have a healthy and lively debate that he has no part in, and
these debates end up dominating the list, he _should_ move. There
is no harm in focusing on what matters to you.
 
Old 08-16-2012, 03:59 PM
Gaetan Bisson
 
Default Arch-general is becoming a mess !

[2012-08-16 09:47:11 -0600] Anthony 'Ishpeck' Tedjamulia:
> Those of us who are used to the internet don't get annoyed
> by other peoples' silliness.

Let's all settle for a mediocre Internet and learn to cope with it.

--
Gaetan
 
Old 08-16-2012, 04:00 PM
Calvin Morrison
 
Default Arch-general is becoming a mess !

On 16 August 2012 11:59, Anthony 'Ishpeck' Tedjamulia
<archlinux@ishpeck.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:50:20AM -0400, Calvin Morrison wrote:
>> On 16 August 2012 11:47, Anthony 'Ishpeck' Tedjamulia
>> <archlinux@ishpeck.net> wrote:
>> > Those of us who are used to the internet don't get annoyed
>> > by other peoples' silliness.
>>
>> This is sort of how I feel about Tom and other who have gotten very
>> upset and taken leave of the list.
>
> I don't really blame him. His goal, in reading the list, is to help
> those who need technical support in the stuff he works on. His goal
> is not to have philosophical arguments with people about software he
> has no intention on working on.
>
> If we have a healthy and lively debate that he has no part in, and
> these debates end up dominating the list, he _should_ move. There
> is no harm in focusing on what matters to you.

Right, but he has even said (along with others) that "nobody is gonna
change their mind, who cares about them, they're just trolls..." to
that effect.

Why bother fighting something so stupid, if even you admit it is stupid?

It's just totally pointless

Calvin
 
Old 08-16-2012, 04:05 PM
Anthony 'Ishpeck' Tedjamulia
 
Default Arch-general is becoming a mess !

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:00:55PM -0400, Calvin Morrison wrote:
> Right, but he has even said (along with others) that "nobody is gonna
> change their mind, who cares about them, they're just trolls..." to
> that effect.
>
> Why bother fighting something so stupid, if even you admit it is stupid?
>
> It's just totally pointless

We all tend to pepper our actual communications with some personal
narrative. It takes great communication skill to extract the actual
meaning from the things that humans inevitably say.

What he said was: "I'm working on this software. If you need help
with it, lemme know in this other place."

Yes. He has feelings and those were conveyed on top of that message
but it's okay. These things stop mattering eventually and the real
effect is, if you need technical help from him, submit a bug report.
 
Old 08-16-2012, 04:11 PM
Thomas Bächler
 
Default Arch-general is becoming a mess !

Am 16.08.2012 17:50, schrieb Calvin Morrison:
>
> This is sort of how I feel about Tom and other who have gotten very
> upset and taken leave of the list.
>
> http://xkcd.com/386/
>

I plead guilty.
 
Old 08-16-2012, 04:47 PM
Tobias Frilling
 
Default Arch-general is becoming a mess !

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I think we all forgot the most fundamental rule in dealing with trolls:

Do *not* feed the trolls!

If you found someone guilty of being a troll, don't argue. Doesn't matter how
wrong he is or how stupid his opinions, he won't change his mind; you're just
wasting your time and energy. If someone just posts something just for the sake
of flaming and spreading FUD but no one is reacting, he's going to leave.
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