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Old 08-15-2012, 05:47 PM
Baho Utot
 
Default Personal note

On 08/15/2012 01:27 PM, Tom Gundersen wrote:

Hi guys,

As most devs have done already, I'm going to change my relationship
with arch-general. This probably does not matter to most of you, so
sorry for the noise. Then again, it might be a useful reminder about
how most devs interact with the list (or rather, how they do not).

My approach to arch-general used to be:

1) to scan it for bug reports and feedback related to "my" corner of
the Arch world, and follow up on whatever bugs/problems/questions I
could.
2) to correct anything that I considered misinformation about the same.

I am no longer able to keep up with this, so I will:

1) stop dealing with bugs reported on the mailing-list, please report
anything to the bug tracker.
2) just accept that the world is full of misinformation and baseless
speculations and not engage with it any longer.

This is mostly for the sake of my own sanity, but also because I think
my continued presence on this mailing list decreases rather than
increases the current abysmal quality of discussion.

Lastly, I'd like to add that I have appreciated the many constructions
conversations on the list.

Cheers,

Tom


I will do you one better I will be unsubscribing to all arch mailing
lists and taking my leave.
This is why I have left the arch community for other waters...Too many
personal attacks when I have tried to post here.


Yes I may have said things in a way that others could not understand but
I am not a English speaking person.
This list should be used for help etc not to denigrate , But others just
want to start dick size wars which I am not interested in and have no
time for. You know who you are I hope your self indulgence full fills
your wishes. No one posting on list lists deserve to be treated in this
manner no matter what is posted, Telling posters to F off etc. If you
don't like what is posted then just ignore it... that is what filters
are for.

It is a sad day today for humanity and I shall take my leave.

PS:

Those that want to insult me (again you know who you are) go right
ahead if it makes you feel good.

Sorry I wont' see your insults.

Good luck and Good nite

Mabuhay
 
Old 08-15-2012, 05:58 PM
Aurko Roy
 
Default Personal note

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:57 PM, Tom Gundersen <teg@jklm.no> wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> As most devs have done already, I'm going to change my relationship
> with arch-general. This probably does not matter to most of you, so
> sorry for the noise. Then again, it might be a useful reminder about
> how most devs interact with the list (or rather, how they do not).
>
> My approach to arch-general used to be:
>
> 1) to scan it for bug reports and feedback related to "my" corner of
> the Arch world, and follow up on whatever bugs/problems/questions I
> could.
> 2) to correct anything that I considered misinformation about the same.
>
> I am no longer able to keep up with this, so I will:
>
> 1) stop dealing with bugs reported on the mailing-list, please report
> anything to the bug tracker.
> 2) just accept that the world is full of misinformation and baseless
> speculations and not engage with it any longer.
>
> This is mostly for the sake of my own sanity, but also because I think
> my continued presence on this mailing list decreases rather than
> increases the current abysmal quality of discussion.
>
> Lastly, I'd like to add that I have appreciated the many constructions
> conversations on the list.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tom
>

Sorry to see you go. Although I don't post much here I do read and
appreciate your prompt and very informative responses to the various issues
that are on arch-general. If this is because of the recent flame-wars over
systemd, couldn't you just ignore (filter out) those messages and
concentrate on real, technical issues that are (occasionally) posted here?

Thank you for your contributions.

--
Aurko Roy
GPG key: 0x20C5BC31
Fingerprint:76B4 9677 15BE 731D 1949 85BA 2A31 B442 20C5 BC31
 
Old 08-15-2012, 06:04 PM
Řyvind Heggstad
 
Default Personal note

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 13:47:10 -0400
Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
> Those that want to insult me (again you know who you are) go right
> ahead if it makes you feel good.
> Sorry I wont' see your insults.
>
> Good luck and Good nite
>
> Mabuhay
>

http://youtu.be/ey0wvGiAH9g

Not that I have ever insulted you before
 
Old 08-15-2012, 06:31 PM
"Stephen E. Baker"
 
Default Personal note

On 15/08/2012 1:27 PM, Tom Gundersen wrote:

Hi guys,

As most devs have done already, I'm going to change my relationship
with arch-general. This probably does not matter to most of you, so
sorry for the noise. Then again, it might be a useful reminder about
how most devs interact with the list (or rather, how they do not).

My approach to arch-general used to be:

1) to scan it for bug reports and feedback related to "my" corner of
the Arch world, and follow up on whatever bugs/problems/questions I
could.
2) to correct anything that I considered misinformation about the same.

I am no longer able to keep up with this, so I will:

1) stop dealing with bugs reported on the mailing-list, please report
anything to the bug tracker.
2) just accept that the world is full of misinformation and baseless
speculations and not engage with it any longer.

This is mostly for the sake of my own sanity, but also because I think
my continued presence on this mailing list decreases rather than
increases the current abysmal quality of discussion.
I noticed in arch-dev that there was a lot of frustration with the
quality of discussion
on arch-general these days. I think it's very unfortunate that the
noise to signal

ratio has gotten to the point where we have one less way of communicating
with the devs. There are very few avenues already.

Sorry to see you (and the others devs, and the TUs) go.

Stephen E. Baker
 
Old 08-15-2012, 07:01 PM
Karol Blazewicz
 
Default Personal note

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Tom Gundersen <teg@jklm.no> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> As most devs have done already, I'm going to change my relationship
> with arch-general.

What is the preferred way to contact you or other devs with questions
or suggestions (better wording for an announcement etc.)? I know some
devs frequent the forum, but it seems that a bug report or feature
request in bugtracker is the way - did I get it right?
http://mailman.archlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/arch-general says
"Questions, problems, and new development ideas can be posted here."
and while it's still true, I understand I shouldn't count on a
developer answering it? Maybe arch-general's description should be
changed then.
 
Old 08-15-2012, 07:43 PM
Tom Gundersen
 
Default Personal note

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Karol Blazewicz
<karol.blazewicz@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Tom Gundersen <teg@jklm.no> wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> As most devs have done already, I'm going to change my relationship
>> with arch-general.
>
> What is the preferred way to contact you or other devs with questions
> or suggestions (better wording for an announcement etc.)?

We don't currently have a satisfactory answer to this question.
Hopefully a solution will present itself soon, I know people are
discussing the problem. After all, we DO want useful feedback, and
there IS really good feedback inbeetween all the rest.

I guess important stuff should still be picked up by someone,
alternatively you could cc the relevant dev (who e.g. wrote the news
item, etc.).

-t
 
Old 08-15-2012, 07:45 PM
Kyle
 
Default Personal note

Tom,
I for one am sorry to see that you have had to become less active on this list. I have found your contributions to be quite valuable. Furthermore, I want to personally thank you for helping to solve one of very few problems I have had with Linux in general, and Arch Linux specifically. I am of course referring to my problem with GRUB and BTRFS on a flash drive. I have since passed on the solution involving a separate /boot partition and syslinux to others who have had boot issues, and it seems to work flawlessly. I do hope you will still be around in the future to help answer other specific questions members may have. Thanks very much for all you do.
~Kyle
--
Kyle is a droid.
The whole world knows it.
This e-mail shows it.
 
Old 08-15-2012, 07:51 PM
mike cloaked
 
Default Personal note

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Tom Gundersen <teg@jklm.no> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Karol Blazewicz
> <karol.blazewicz@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Tom Gundersen <teg@jklm.no> wrote:
>>> Hi guys,
>>>
>>> As most devs have done already, I'm going to change my relationship
>>> with arch-general.
>>
>> What is the preferred way to contact you or other devs with questions
>> or suggestions (better wording for an announcement etc.)?
>
> We don't currently have a satisfactory answer to this question.
> Hopefully a solution will present itself soon, I know people are
> discussing the problem. After all, we DO want useful feedback, and
> there IS really good feedback inbeetween all the rest.
>
> I guess important stuff should still be picked up by someone,
> alternatively you could cc the relevant dev (who e.g. wrote the news
> item, etc.).
>

You know I have been watching this really destructive war of attrition
on this list for quite some time - and it is reminiscent of the long
flame wars that occurred on the Fedora general list that led me to
unsubscribe from the Fedora list and start looking at Arch as the
distribution for my laptops.

It was such a pleasure to see sensible posts and great and helpful
replies on the arch list when I first subscribed to them. It only
takes a few very argumentative individuals to destroy the civilised
structure of such a mailing list and I hope that calm and good sense
can return to the lists so that people can read and post good
constructive discussions and move forward instead of backwards.

I have grown to value so much that happens in arch, and the sensible
approach to the way arch delivers its packages - I really hope that
this can continue without big rifts between a few players.

Arch has become one of the big distributions - hopefully it will
continue to be so.

--
mike c
 
Old 08-15-2012, 07:56 PM
Kevin Chadwick
 
Default Personal note

> I will do you one better I will be unsubscribing to all arch mailing
> lists and taking my leave.

I may have been annoying to some in my own hopefully non offensive
capacity but I've seen a couple of people with good arguments have them
taken apart or twisted on mute points and then pointlessly abused. I'm
afraid that happens with so many readers tuned in, don't take it too
hard and keep me informed of your endeavours with LFS or whatever other
distro if you can.

p.s. I haven't looked at the details yet but the Android init system
looks closer to OpenBSDs than sysVinit, if your interested for your own
small set of packages.

Good Luck,

Kc

--
__________________________________________________ _____________________

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
__________________________________________________ _____________________
 
Old 08-15-2012, 08:14 PM
Dave Morgan
 
Default Personal note

On 15/08/12 at 09:43pm, Tom Gundersen wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Karol Blazewicz
> <karol.blazewicz@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Tom Gundersen <teg@jklm.no> wrote:
> >> Hi guys,
> >>
> >> As most devs have done already, I'm going to change my relationship
> >> with arch-general.
> >
> > What is the preferred way to contact you or other devs with questions
> > or suggestions (better wording for an announcement etc.)?
>
> We don't currently have a satisfactory answer to this question.
> Hopefully a solution will present itself soon, I know people are
> discussing the problem. After all, we DO want useful feedback, and
> there IS really good feedback inbeetween all the rest.
>
> I guess important stuff should still be picked up by someone,
> alternatively you could cc the relevant dev (who e.g. wrote the news
> item, etc.).
>
> -t


Sadly this does not surprise me at all.

I do appreciate your efforts. Mnay tnaks
--
Dave.
 

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