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Old 08-16-2012, 11:40 AM
Guus Snijders
 
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2012/8/16 Vytautas Stankevičius <brotheris@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:45 AM, G. Schlisio <g.schlisio@gmx.de> wrote:
>> Am 15.08.2012 21:43, schrieb Tom Gundersen:
>>>
[...]
>> what about cleaning arch-general by creating a new list (arch-offtopic,
>> arch-flame etc) and moving those diskussion there
>> just a spontaneous idea
>
> Why go through all this trouble creating new lists? Issue a warning
> when discussion goes nowhere, mute few selected people from "both
> sides" for a week and that's it. I believe this was done before?

As such policies would just create more bitching, it's better to teach
people how to use the "ignore thread" option from the mail client.
If that feature is not available then the program isn't very suitable
for reading mailinglists...
For those not familiar with this type of behaviour: check out the
history of the vi vs emacs wars. This kind of thing is normal for
opensource. I guess Arch has become big now.

Then again: we are already way too far from the original topic.

To Tom and Baho: sorry to see you leave, but i understand.
Good luck!


mvg,
Guus
 
Old 08-18-2012, 11:36 AM
Smith Dhumbumroong
 
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On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 07:27:29PM +0200, Tom Gundersen wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> As most devs have done already, I'm going to change my relationship
> with arch-general. This probably does not matter to most of you, so
> sorry for the noise. Then again, it might be a useful reminder about
> how most devs interact with the list (or rather, how they do not).
>
> My approach to arch-general used to be:
>
> 1) to scan it for bug reports and feedback related to "my" corner of
> the Arch world, and follow up on whatever bugs/problems/questions I
> could.
> 2) to correct anything that I considered misinformation about the same.
>
> I am no longer able to keep up with this, so I will:
>
> 1) stop dealing with bugs reported on the mailing-list, please report
> anything to the bug tracker.
> 2) just accept that the world is full of misinformation and baseless
> speculations and not engage with it any longer.
>
> This is mostly for the sake of my own sanity, but also because I think
> my continued presence on this mailing list decreases rather than
> increases the current abysmal quality of discussion.
>
> Lastly, I'd like to add that I have appreciated the many constructions
> conversations on the list.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tom

Sorry to see you have decided to leave arch-general, Tom, and it's also
sad to see that another channel of communication with the developers
damaged. Although it is totally understandable, especially with
the quality of threads on arch-general as of late. (Oh how I miss the
days when Arch's developers and users were like brothers and sisters.
It is the price we paid for growing so as fast, I guess.)

Still, I want to tell you that I appreciated all of your effort to try and
educate as well as correct any misunderstandings people might have on various
topics. Many times when I read the list I'm amazed at all the patience you have
shown in many threads, especially since many replies you got were less
than... polite, shall we say. You really have the patience of a saint.

Lastly, I want to tell you and other developers that me and many
users are also tired of all these recent drama against systemd as much
as the developers do. It's package signing fiasco all over again.

Best regards,

Smith
 
Old 08-18-2012, 04:28 PM
Giorgio Lando
 
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As a long term, quite silent user, the systemd drama does not struck me as
special, new or exceedingly dramatic. I remember analogous, heated
discussions also when the arch community was much smaller. E.g., I remember
a devfs ---> udev transition drama, and a monolithic xfree ---> modular
xorg one. In both cases, a minority was in favour of delaying or avoiding
the change with a mix of technical and political reasons. In both cases the
devs decided to follow upstream for the best.

Obviously any case is potentially different, but a bit of historical memory
can help to relativize the psychological aspects.

Giorgio Lando
 

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