Why Multiple Forums for different issues? Arch Linux/ARM?
 

On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:21:29 -0500
"David C. Rankin" <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:

> On 07/09/2012 11:16 AM, Daniel Wallace wrote:
> > Because Archlinuxarm is unsupported by Archlinux. it is a seperate
> > project. The same reason archbang, chakra, bridgelinux, and
> > archlinux-ppc are seperate as well.
>
> Grrrr. Thanks Daniel,
>
> That's what was confusing -- ARM certainly looks official flying the Arch
> Linux trademarked logo, etc....
>
> So I guess anyone can create any forum and fly the Arch logo? Sounds like
> a "cease and desist" letter would fix that problem.
>

ArchlinuxARM is a great project, and is fully compatible with archlinux. But
as any ARM-based system, you have to use your brain before reading their wiki.

They don't violate any copyrights, nor do I think anyone cares of those. So
there is no need for lawyers.

--
Leonid Isaev
GnuPG key: 0x164B5A6D
Fingerprint: C0DF 20D0 C075 C3F1 E1BE 775A A7AE F6CB 164B 5A6D

Why Multiple Forums for different issues? Arch Linux/ARM?
 

Am 09.07.2012 18:23, schrieb Mateusz Loskot:
> p.s. I agree the official logo makes the ArchLinux ARM status confusing.

Maybe we should ask them to use a slightly modified logo (maybe include
a microchip into the logo, or another small device).

I don't remember what the agreement with Arch Linux ARM was exactly
regarding their logo.

Why Multiple Forums for different issues? Arch Linux/ARM?
 

Am 09.07.2012 18:44, schrieb Tom Gundersen:
> On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 5:21 PM, David C. Rankin
> <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
>> On 07/09/2012 11:16 AM, Daniel Wallace wrote:
>>>
>>> Because Archlinuxarm is unsupported by Archlinux. it is a seperate
>>> project. The same reason archbang, chakra, bridgelinux, and
>>> archlinux-ppc are seperate as well.
>>
>>
>> Grrrr. Thanks Daniel,
>>
>> That's what was confusing -- ARM certainly looks official flying the Arch
>> Linux trademarked logo, etc....
>>
>> So I guess anyone can create any forum and fly the Arch logo? Sounds like
>> a "cease and desist" letter would fix that problem.
>
> Notice that some use of our trademark by derivatives is allowed[0].
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tom
> (who recently started using ArchLinux ARM and is a big fan)
>
> [0]:
> <https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/DeveloperWiki:TrademarkPolicy#Permitted_Use>

Judging from a brief read of that paragraph I would even conclude that
they cannot really use our name and trademark directly as they changed
too much. :-)

They chose to be completely independent from us which has up- and
downsides. And as lots of other derivatives thy implemented their own
tools and infrastructure.

It'll be interesting what could happen in the future. E.g. there was
once an independent port of Arch called Arch64 which was merged into
Arch itself some day and we started to officially support x86_64. I
don't see such things happen any time soon if at all. But if we indeed
see capable hardware at some point and we developers start using the arm
port such things might happen naturally. That being said, I am happy
that people are already working on such a port.

Back to topic: I see how users might get confused by naming and logos.
The same happens with archlinuxppc.org. But I'd rather not have a strict
policy about trademark use and enforcing it (see how the Debian/Mozilla
-> Iceweasel/Firefox issue did any good). Maybe we can encourage the arm
people to work more closely with us though.

Greetings,

Pierre

--
Pierre Schmitz, https://pierre-schmitz.com

Why Multiple Forums for different issues? Arch Linux/ARM?
 

On 07/09/2012 12:54 PM, Pierre Schmitz wrote:

Judging from a brief read of that paragraph I would even conclude that
they cannot really use our name and trademark directly as they changed
too much. :-)

They chose to be completely independent from us which has up- and
downsides. And as lots of other derivatives thy implemented their own
tools and infrastructure.


My point wasn't to spear the site -- in a way, the more and different
variations of Arch -- the better. The original thought that provoked the
discussion was link to ARM forum thread that dealt exactly with the util-linux
conflicts I see on my box. When I followed the link to
http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3036&p=18467 I was presented
with what looked like an Arch site but required a separate login/pass to post.
(no big deal, just confusing). I just wanted to make sure that there were not
2 forums for different issues in Arch. (I couldn't see why there would be, but
it was confusing enough to point it out)


Thanks for the info and clarification Tom/Pierre, all. Learning occurred.
Looks like the ARM folks have shadow issues to solve as well :)



--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

Why Multiple Forums for different issues? Arch Linux/ARM?
 

On Mon, 2012-07-09 at 19:54 +0200, Pierre Schmitz wrote:
> Am 09.07.2012 18:44, schrieb Tom Gundersen:
> > On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 5:21 PM, David C. Rankin
> > <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 07/09/2012 11:16 AM, Daniel Wallace wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Because Archlinuxarm is unsupported by Archlinux. it is a seperate
> >>> project. The same reason archbang, chakra, bridgelinux, and
> >>> archlinux-ppc are seperate as well.
> >>
> >>
> >> Grrrr. Thanks Daniel,
> >>
> >> That's what was confusing -- ARM certainly looks official flying the Arch
> >> Linux trademarked logo, etc....
> >>
> >> So I guess anyone can create any forum and fly the Arch logo? Sounds like
> >> a "cease and desist" letter would fix that problem.
> >
> > Notice that some use of our trademark by derivatives is allowed[0].
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Tom
> > (who recently started using ArchLinux ARM and is a big fan)
> >
> > [0]:
> > <https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/DeveloperWiki:TrademarkPolicy#Permitted_Use>
>
> Judging from a brief read of that paragraph I would even conclude that
> they cannot really use our name and trademark directly as they changed
> too much. :-)
>
> They chose to be completely independent from us which has up- and
> downsides. And as lots of other derivatives thy implemented their own
> tools and infrastructure.
>
> It'll be interesting what could happen in the future. E.g. there was
> once an independent port of Arch called Arch64 which was merged into
> Arch itself some day and we started to officially support x86_64. I
> don't see such things happen any time soon if at all. But if we indeed
> see capable hardware at some point and we developers start using the arm
> port such things might happen naturally. That being said, I am happy
> that people are already working on such a port.
>
> Back to topic: I see how users might get confused by naming and logos.
> The same happens with archlinuxppc.org. But I'd rather not have a strict
> policy about trademark use and enforcing it (see how the Debian/Mozilla
> -> Iceweasel/Firefox issue did any good). Maybe we can encourage the arm
> people to work more closely with us though.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Pierre

The logo is including typography and so it differs exactly as wanted by
the policy
http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/styles/simplecorp/imageset/ALARM-2.png
a more famous example for "typography" can be a "logo"
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Cocacola_cyrilic.JPG/170px-Cocacola_cyrilic.JPG

http://www.archlinux.org/art/ >
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/DeveloperWiki:TrademarkPolicy

- Ralf

Why Multiple Forums for different issues? Arch Linux/ARM?
 

Am 09.07.2012 22:03, schrieb Kevin Mihelich:
> Around March/April 2011, we contacted Aaron Griffin and got
> explicit permission to rename our distribution to Arch Linux ARM since we
> were rapidly expanding our focus from plug computers to a wide variety of
> ARM platforms, and had also brought our packages and overall philosophy in
> line with upstream.

Before I say anything, I want to emphasize that I very much like what
you guys do and have done.

Now, what's the confusion here? People seem to think that you are part
of the main Arch Linux project and are thus confused as to why you have
separate forums.

My suggestion (which I also brought up further down in this thread) is
that you *slightly* distinguish your project from Arch Linux by adding a
small change to the logo. The word "ARM" in small letters in the lower
right corner of the Arch logo would probably look nice. Or, some picture
that people would associate with ARM, like a small representation of a
SoC computer.

That said, other Arch Linux derivatives should probably do the same
(Arch Bang could add a small explosion to the logo, ...).

To clarify: These are only suggestions, I don't want anyone to feel
otherwise. Feel free to disagree and ignore me.

> I'd be more than happy to work with more developers from upstream, and I
> just want to re-emphasize that we're in no way some rogue derivative flying
> your flag.

Let me emphasize that while I never used AL ARM myself, I only heard
positive things about it so far.

I can assure you that nobody inside the Arch team has expressed any
negative feelings towards your project.

Why Multiple Forums for different issues? Arch Linux/ARM?
 

> Now, what's the confusion here? People seem to think that you are part
> of the main Arch Linux project and are thus confused as to why you have
> separate forums.

I've only seen one person express confusion on this point... is this
really a problem?

--
John K Pate http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/s0930006/

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

Why Multiple Forums for different issues? Arch Linux/ARM?
 

On Tue, 2012-07-10 at 11:06 +0200, Thomas Bächler wrote:
> My suggestion (which I also brought up further down in this thread) is
> that you *slightly* distinguish your project from Arch Linux by adding a
> small change to the logo. The word "ARM" in small letters in the lower
> right corner of the Arch logo would probably look nice.

http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/styles/simplecorp/imageset/ALARM-2.png