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Old 02-04-2012, 04:08 PM
Magnus Therning
 
Default (for Vesa and other Arch Devs on the list) GHC 7.4.1 or HP 2011.4.0.0??

This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and especially
Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as found in
[extra].

We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP in
Arch. *I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead was,
but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. I don't like the
current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision would
be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.

/M

On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 04:28:28PM +0100, Magnus Therning wrote:
> It's been out for a day now... this would be a good time to decide
> whether ArchLinux should be bold and move to a haskell-platform-free
> state, or trudge on with HP and the ache it causes.
>
> If we're moving to 7.4.1 there's a lot of work with getting
> ArchHaskell in shape for it, so the longer notice the better
>
> If we're to trudge on with HP then we really ought to move to
> 2011.4.0.0, which also means a new version of GHC and a lot of work on
> ArchHaskell, so the longer notice the better
>
> Please, please, please, can we move on this soon?
>
> I'm available to help out with [extra]&[community] packages if need
> be, updating PKGBUILDs, building, verifying other's changes, etc.
>
> /M
>
> --
> Magnus Therning * * * * * * * * * * *OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4
> email: magnus@therning.org * jabber: magnus@therning.org
> twitter: magthe * * * * * * * http://therning.org/magnus

--
Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4
email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org
twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus

Most software today is very much like an Egyptian pyramid with
millions of bricks piled on top of each other, with no structural
integrity, but just done by brute force and thousands of slaves.
-- Alan Kay
 
Old 02-04-2012, 07:30 PM
Eric Bélanger
 
Default (for Vesa and other Arch Devs on the list) GHC 7.4.1 or HP 2011.4.0.0??

On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Magnus Therning <magnus@therning.org> wrote:
> This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and especially
> Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as found in
> [extra].
>

You might want to contact Vesa directly. He might not be following this ML.


> We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP in
> Arch. **I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead was,
> but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. *I don't like the
> current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision would
> be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.
>
> /M
>
> On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 04:28:28PM +0100, Magnus Therning wrote:
>> It's been out for a day now... this would be a good time to decide
>> whether ArchLinux should be bold and move to a haskell-platform-free
>> state, or trudge on with HP and the ache it causes.
>>
>> If we're moving to 7.4.1 there's a lot of work with getting
>> ArchHaskell in shape for it, so the longer notice the better
>>
>> If we're to trudge on with HP then we really ought to move to
>> 2011.4.0.0, which also means a new version of GHC and a lot of work on
>> ArchHaskell, so the longer notice the better
>>
>> Please, please, please, can we move on this soon?
>>
>> I'm available to help out with [extra]&[community] packages if need
>> be, updating PKGBUILDs, building, verifying other's changes, etc.
>>
>> /M
>>
>> --
>> Magnus Therning * * * * * * * * * * *OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4
>> email: magnus@therning.org * jabber: magnus@therning.org
>> twitter: magthe * * * * * * * http://therning.org/magnus
>
> --
> Magnus Therning * * * * * * * * * * *OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4
> email: magnus@therning.org * jabber: magnus@therning.org
> twitter: magthe * * * * * * * http://therning.org/magnus
>
> Most software today is very much like an Egyptian pyramid with
> millions of bricks piled on top of each other, with no structural
> integrity, but just done by brute force and thousands of slaves.
> * * -- Alan Kay
 
Old 02-05-2012, 07:18 PM
Vesa Kaihlavirta
 
Default (for Vesa and other Arch Devs on the list) GHC 7.4.1 or HP 2011.4.0.0??

On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Magnus Therning <magnus@therning.org> wrote:
> This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and especially
> Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as found in
> [extra].
>
> We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP in
> Arch. **I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead was,
> but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. *I don't like the
> current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision would
> be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.

Yeah, I noticed 7.4.1's release just now.

The question of HP and Arch was left in a limbo the last time, I feel.
The reason I started pondering about dropping HP earlier was that
there seemed to be no progress on it with regards to 7.2. Then it was
pointed out that 7.2 was sort of an unstable upstream release, so that
was the reason for HP not going with it.

So now I'm not so certain anymore about dropping it. We could again
wait for a while until HP catches up (it should be relatively fast
this time, since 7.4 is supposedly a real stable release) or just drop
it and go to 7.4.1 asap (and probably face some breakage). What do you
people think?



--vk
 
Old 02-05-2012, 08:34 PM
Allan McRae
 
Default (for Vesa and other Arch Devs on the list) GHC 7.4.1 or HP 2011.4.0.0??

On 06/02/12 06:18, Vesa Kaihlavirta wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Magnus Therning <magnus@therning.org> wrote:
>> This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and especially
>> Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as found in
>> [extra].
>>
>> We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP in
>> Arch. *I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead was,
>> but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. I don't like the
>> current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision would
>> be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.
>
> Yeah, I noticed 7.4.1's release just now.
>
> The question of HP and Arch was left in a limbo the last time, I feel.
> The reason I started pondering about dropping HP earlier was that
> there seemed to be no progress on it with regards to 7.2. Then it was
> pointed out that 7.2 was sort of an unstable upstream release, so that
> was the reason for HP not going with it.
>
> So now I'm not so certain anymore about dropping it. We could again
> wait for a while until HP catches up (it should be relatively fast
> this time, since 7.4 is supposedly a real stable release) or just drop
> it and go to 7.4.1 asap (and probably face some breakage). What do you
> people think?
>

Drop HP.
 
Old 02-06-2012, 07:45 AM
Magnus Therning
 
Default (for Vesa and other Arch Devs on the list) GHC 7.4.1 or HP 2011.4.0.0??

On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 21:18, Vesa Kaihlavirta <vpkaihla@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Magnus Therning <magnus@therning.org> wrote:
>> This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and especially
>> Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as found in
>> [extra].
>>
>> We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP in
>> Arch. **I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead was,
>> but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. *I don't like the
>> current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision would
>> be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.
>
> Yeah, I noticed 7.4.1's release just now.
>
> The question of HP and Arch was left in a limbo the last time, I feel.
> The reason I started pondering about dropping HP earlier was that
> there seemed to be no progress on it with regards to 7.2. Then it was
> pointed out that 7.2 was sort of an unstable upstream release, so that
> was the reason for HP not going with it.
>
> So now I'm not so certain anymore about dropping it. We could again
> wait for a while until HP catches up (it should be relatively fast
> this time, since 7.4 is supposedly a real stable release) or just drop
> it and go to 7.4.1 asap (and probably face some breakage). What do you
> people think?

Drop HP. The main reason is that the goals of HP are opposite the
goals of ArchLinux.

/M

--
Magnus Therning * * * * * * * * * * *OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4
email: magnus@therning.org * jabber: magnus@therning.org
twitter: magthe * * * * * * * http://therning.org/magnus
 
Old 02-14-2012, 05:26 AM
Magnus Therning
 
Default (for Vesa and other Arch Devs on the list) GHC 7.4.1 or HP 2011.4.0.0??

On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 10:18:32PM +0200, Vesa Kaihlavirta wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Magnus Therning <magnus@therning.org> wrote:
>> This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and
>> especially Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as
>> found in [extra].
>>
>> We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP
>> in Arch. **I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead
>> was, but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. *I don't like
>> the current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision
>> would be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.
>
> Yeah, I noticed 7.4.1's release just now.
>
> The question of HP and Arch was left in a limbo the last time, I
> feel. The reason I started pondering about dropping HP earlier was
> that there seemed to be no progress on it with regards to 7.2. Then
> it was pointed out that 7.2 was sort of an unstable upstream
> release, so that was the reason for HP not going with it.

Here's how I think:

1. The decision to not go with 7.2 was not bad. I think upstream
caused a bit of confusion by giving a stable-release-number to a
tech preview.
2. I think the correct path forward is to drop HP. HP is a set of
libraries, and it blesses certain versions of those libraries.
Each of those libraries is however released independently as well
so sticking with HP feels counter to how the Arch Way is
practised[1].
3. My impression was that there was a majority of people on the
ArchHaskell mailing list in favour of dropping HP.

> So now I'm not so certain anymore about dropping it. We could again
> wait for a while until HP catches up (it should be relatively fast
> this time, since 7.4 is supposedly a real stable release) or just
> drop it and go to 7.4.1 asap (and probably face some breakage). What
> do you people think?

There's still a bit of work needed to keep up with HP since there's
been a new release with GHC 7.0.4.

/M

[1]: I write it this way since I can't find anything in the Arch Way
saying that it's a goal to always stay with the latest release of
packages.

/M

--
Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4
email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org
twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus


Perl is another example of filling a tiny, short-term need, and then
being a real problem in the longer term.
-- Alan Kay
 

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