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Old 01-28-2012, 04:22 PM
Stefan Wilkens
 
Default PulseAudio again (was: change in mount behaviour?)

2012/1/28 Heiko Baums <lists@baums-on-web.de>:
> Am Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:29:33 +0100
> schrieb Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:
>
>> The majority of Linux users on non-audio Linux mailing lists praise
>> PA, ...
>
> And the most computer users use Windows. So what's the point? That
> doesn't mean that Windows is better than Linux or that Windows works
> perfectly.
>
> I'm sure that most Linux users just use their stereo or maybe surround
> SoundBlaster like or onboard AC'97 sound card and not a
> (semi-)professional audio card.
>
> For those people PulseAudio may work, but that doesn't mean that it
> really works, because they just don't see all the flaws. And it
> definitely doesn't work with those ice1712 cards. And I've seen a lot
> of discussions in Linux and IT forums where PulseAudio absolutely
> wasn't praised, where most users said that it is crap or at least
> unnecessary, because of the missing hardware support, and because most
> of the features are already done by ALSA itself out-of-the-box.
>
>> I always had issues with PA and I never had an issue when I replaced
>> PA by dummy packages, but seemingly there's a work flow by a majority
>> of Linux users, where having PA installed is an advantage.
>>
>> You might take a look at Debian users mailing list. On KDE4 PA is
>> using 2% CPU already when doing nothing. For some people using 2% for
>> nothing isn't a bug, it's ok for them.
>
> So you see, that some people just don't care, maybe because they don't
> know better. I would call those 2% buggy and a waste of resources.
> Another reason not to using PulseAudio.
>
>> Why should I trust that a musician is a good drummer, when she's a bad
>> guitarist? Perhaps because she's a drummer .
>
> This comparison is flawed. A guitarist wouldn't go on stage and drum,
> if he can't drum, and vice versa. But Lennart writes a software for
> something he at least doesn't know enough about (PulseAudio) and tries
> to have this declared as standard, and at the same time writes another
> software (systemd), which also has several issues or is at least not
> really compatible with existing systems or script as far as I know,
> instead of first fixing the first one, so that it really works. And
> then he thinks he has to get involved in other things at the same time.
> This is something completely different, and this is what I'm worried
> about.
>
> If he would do one thing and would really try to fix its issues and he
> would really try to learn how to fix them, I wouldn't say much. But I
> don't see this. So how should I trust him and his software if he gets
> himself involved in several different things if he's not able to do the
> one and even the other thing correctly?
>
> Heiko

Does this really need to be rehashed yet again? This isn't arch
related yet these PA back and forths keeps popping up in the mailboxes
of all the registered people looking for arch-related content.

I didn't follow the original discussion so I cant argument on that
extent, but the last thing we need on this list is more noise.
 
Old 01-28-2012, 05:37 PM
C Anthony Risinger
 
Default PulseAudio again (was: change in mount behaviour?)

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Heiko Baums <lists@baums-on-web.de> wrote:
>
> If Lennart would either fix all those issues in PulseAudio and systemd,
> so that they would really work for everybody and would really bring
> advantages for everybody or at least no disadvantages, or if his
> software would just be optional and not needed as a dependency by some
> distros or DEs, I'm pretty sure this discussion wouldn't always pop up
> again.

dear Lennart and co.,

the community would appreciate software that is 100% free of all bugs,
now and forever. we expect these things to work with every card ever
manufactured, even stuff 10yrs obsolete or in the 1% of use cases. and
no, before you ask, just working is not good enough, please be sure
that all possible features are exposed. also, ensure your software
integrates perfectly with legacy systems and perfectly with future
systems that haven't been thought of. lastly, after achieving
completely awesome and 150% interoperability (must include future),
make sure that your software is 100% optional and free of dependencies
in either direction. seriously, if you can't hit this entry-level 3rd
grade target, there is no hope of becoming a l33t linnicks developer,
and you should right fuxxor off, guy.

signed,

Your Friends in the Community

...... haha, i make myself laugh, that's all that really matters.

is this roughly message you want to send? both PA and systemd already
do a pretty good job coping with legacy stuff, in two areas that are
*notorious* for their excessive proliferation ... you seem to have
some basic misunderstandings of ALSA/alsa-lib/init ... you do know
that init doesn't actually do *anything*, right? i reimplemented init
in ~40 lines of bash years ago for LXC containers ... and it was
full-featured, supporting all signals, and even inittab. that shiz
was unfixable garbage imo.

i think if you read a bit more ... eg. man pages, documentation,
introductory blogs/etc, and not rants by random-equally-infuriated
users ... you may find some reason, and *maybe* even some use. ftw,
PA idles at 0% CPU for me, and when streaming over the network to an
XBMC sound system, it uses a steady average 1-2% (actually brief
intermittent bursts at 10% or so) ... nothing outrageous ...meanwhile,
FF consumes 3-5% to run flash, and flash consumes 8-10% to run Pandora
... PA is the lightest link in the chain.

... and that's a wrap on this topic, for me that is.

--

C Anthony
 
Old 01-28-2012, 06:32 PM
Jelle van der Waa
 
Default PulseAudio again (was: change in mount behaviour?)

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>wrote:

> On Sat, 2012-01-28 at 13:14 -0600, Leonid Isaev wrote:
> > Please please please not again!!!
> >
> > PA is a great consumer thing, and that's exactly what we need. Because
> noone
> > cares about "pro" audio solutions which are a nightmare to configure.
> >
> > PA goes far beyond you KDE/gnome to embedded systems with android and
> webos.
> > Having different volume controls for different ergimes is very handy
> there.
>
> The discussion would stop once and for all, if there would simply be a
> dummy package available by the repositories of all the distros who make
> PA a dependency.
>
If it's an upstream dependency , then a package depends on it. If you don't
like PA. Then either stop using it or improve it, just don't spread this
silly FUD and complains. Man up and take it to upstream.



> Neither the OP nor I have started this discussion on several other
> lists, where it was a thread some days ago. All the time there are
> averaged non-pro-audio users having trouble with PA.
>
> As always "Patches welcome!"


> And now I shut up,
> Ralf
>
>
>
>


--
Jelle van der Waa
 
Old 01-28-2012, 06:32 PM
Ben Tartsa
 
Default PulseAudio again (was: change in mount behaviour?)

Thanks.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>wrote:

> On Sat, 2012-01-28 at 13:14 -0600, Leonid Isaev wrote:
> > Please please please not again!!!
> >
> > PA is a great consumer thing, and that's exactly what we need. Because
> noone
> > cares about "pro" audio solutions which are a nightmare to configure.
> >
> > PA goes far beyond you KDE/gnome to embedded systems with android and
> webos.
> > Having different volume controls for different ergimes is very handy
> there.
>
> The discussion would stop once and for all, if there would simply be a
> dummy package available by the repositories of all the distros who make
> PA a dependency.
>
> Neither the OP nor I have started this discussion on several other
> lists, where it was a thread some days ago. All the time there are
> averaged non-pro-audio users having trouble with PA.
>
> And now I shut up,
> Ralf
>
>
>
>
 

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