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Old 12-23-2011, 08:51 AM
Ralf Madorf
 
Default Is there a clean solution to get completely rid of Pulseaudio?

On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 11:27 +0200, Ionut Biru wrote:
> On 12/23/2011 11:25 AM, Ralf Madorf wrote:
> > On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 11:17 +0200, Ionut Biru wrote:
> >> can you clarify that you are talking about pulseaudio and not about
> >> libpulse?
> >
> > # pacman -Rss pulseaudio
> > checking dependencies...
> > error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies)
> > :: gnome-settings-daemon: requires pulseaudio
> > :: pulseaudio-alsa: requires pulseaudio
> >
> >
> >
>
> ok then, gnome requires pulseaudio. The only way to get rid of
> pulseaudio is to get rid of gnome.

1.

At the moment only GDM is installed, not GNOME.

2.

I had GNOME3 installed for Debian and 2 dummy packages solved all
issues, since GNOME3 doesn't need PA, just some "my computer should be a
toy, instead of a tool" tasks need PA.

Okay, if the policy of Arch Linux is to force people to install unneeded
stuff, than it simply isn't the distro I should use.

Thanks,

Ralf
 
Old 12-23-2011, 08:53 AM
Ralf Madorf
 
Default Is there a clean solution to get completely rid of Pulseaudio?

On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 04:29 -0500, Jonathan Vasquez wrote:
> You could do that by doing pacman -Rsc pulseaudio .. but be extremely
> careful with that command. It deletes everything recursively down
> (cascading as man pacman puts it).

I know this command, but this won't solve the issue, that PA on Arch
Linux is a dependency for software that don't need PA.
I want a clean solution.

- Ralf
 
Old 12-23-2011, 08:57 AM
Ralf Madorf
 
Default Is there a clean solution to get completely rid of Pulseaudio?

On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 13:02 +0330, ali.mousavi@gmail.com wrote:
> you can't use gnome 3 without pulse audio. if you don't want to use pulse
> audio, consider using another DE or WM.

At the moment I'm using Xfce only, but I will have the libre to use
GNOME3 too, since it works without PA. It did work without PA for my
Debian.

As mentioned before, at the moment only GDM is installed.

Btw. for what tasks PA is needed? I don't know any task that's relevant
for a DAW. But having the libre to use every DE for a DAW should be
possible.

- Ralf
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:03 AM
Ralf Madorf
 
Default Is there a clean solution to get completely rid of Pulseaudio?

On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 10:38 +0100, Stefan Wilkens wrote:
> Pulse recently replaced esound as the dependent sound server for
> gnome[1], esound has been marked dead.
>
> You might have some relative success if you drop pulse and do some
> per-application configuration to redirect their default output to alsa
> or OSS. While this would work for applications such as gstreamer
> (gstreamer-properties), pidgin, vlc, mplayer.. you will find yourself
> with a broken gnome. You'll need a new mixer application, setup
> software mixing (or hardware if your card privides) etc.
>
> You may find life simpler by disabling [2] pulse, rather than removing it.
>
> [1] http://live.gnome.org/PulseAudio
> [2] https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=928817#p928817

So I should install PA, while not using it? Is this the interpretation
of KISS by Arch Linux?

I already have written that I'll use a HDSP card = HDSP mixer, a desktop
mixer thingy won't be able to handle such an audio card and my sound
server will be Jack with ALSA backend.

- Ralf
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:03 AM
Ionut Biru
 
Default Is there a clean solution to get completely rid of Pulseaudio?

On 12/23/2011 11:51 AM, Ralf Madorf wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 11:27 +0200, Ionut Biru wrote:
>> On 12/23/2011 11:25 AM, Ralf Madorf wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 11:17 +0200, Ionut Biru wrote:
>>>> can you clarify that you are talking about pulseaudio and not about
>>>> libpulse?
>>>
>>> # pacman -Rss pulseaudio
>>> checking dependencies...
>>> error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies)
>>> :: gnome-settings-daemon: requires pulseaudio
>>> :: pulseaudio-alsa: requires pulseaudio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ok then, gnome requires pulseaudio. The only way to get rid of
>> pulseaudio is to get rid of gnome.
>
> 1.
>
> At the moment only GDM is installed, not GNOME.
>
> 2.
>
> I had GNOME3 installed for Debian and 2 dummy packages solved all
> issues, since GNOME3 doesn't need PA, just some "my computer should be a
> toy, instead of a tool" tasks need PA.
>
> Okay, if the policy of Arch Linux is to force people to install unneeded
> stuff, than it simply isn't the distro I should use.
>

hey troll, before trowing such arguments i suggest to look at our gdm
version and debian version.

gdm 3.2 requires gnome-settings-daemon and all the crap.

debian has gdm 3.0 which doesn't require.

not to mention that only couples of days ago debian finished gnome 3.2.

> Thanks,
>
> Ralf
>


--
IonuČ›
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:11 AM
Ralf Madorf
 
Default Is there a clean solution to get completely rid of Pulseaudio?

On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 03:39 -0600, C Anthony Risinger wrote:
> Do not install an application requiring it?

Why does GDM require it?
Why does GNOME3 require it?

> You'll need to provide context about what you're trying to accomplish
> (clear and simple goals) and what you've already done (eg. I ran command
> xyz, I installed gnome, etc ...)

The goal is a DAW with a professional audio card from RME. Since PA
isn't needed, but it's always good to cause trouble, I won't have it
installed.

I wish to have the libre to use GNOME3, even if I now use Xfce only.

> So far we've only learned PA probably sux, you don't want it on you system,
> and some random bits about Debian ;-) ... best to assume nothing of the
> solution since that's what you are here requesting. Simply state your
> end-goals, the issue(s), and the path taken thus far.

I installed ArchLinux, upgraded it by the basic repositories and only
installed Xfce, GDM, some mailers, NVIDIA driver, nothing else until
now.

I'm going to set up a DAW and graphic machine with a kernel-rt, Ardour3
with video timeline, GIMP etc..

I like to install GNOME3 too.

> IIRC PA is split into a library package, among others. Many pkgs will dep
> libpulse, but it cannot be loaded (or possibly will not) without the
> accompanying support packages.
>
> Audio is not my thing, but I absorb passively often as possible. PA will
> play nicely with other impls by suspending itself and releasing the
> hardware when requested, allowing (JACK and ?) others to assume control.
> My guess is there is not an issue here ... I suggest moving forward until a
> concrete problem is encountered, or running headless.
>
> While I'm not into pro audio, I do use PA successfully on several machines
> daily with great satisfaction and zero issue; be sure you understand the
> difference between ALSA, alsa-lib, and PA.

It already is an issue. I don't need PA for my work. Even if it should
cause no issue, I don't need it.

- Ralf
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:13 AM
Heiko Baums
 
Default Is there a clean solution to get completely rid of Pulseaudio?

Am Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:53:56 +0100
schrieb Ralf Madorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:

> I know this command, but this won't solve the issue, that PA on Arch
> Linux is a dependency for software that don't need PA.
> I want a clean solution.

Run pacman -Qi pulseaudio to see what package(s) forces you to install
PA. As far as I know it's actually common policy in Arch Linux that PA
is only optional and nobody is at least forced to use it.

If there are applications which depend on PA and can't work without PA
then you have, of course, the choice between installing and using PA
or uninstalling the reverse dependency. But in such a case you have to
blame upstream, but not Arch Linux.

And it probably can happen that the package maintainer made a mistake
by adding pulseaudio to depends instead of optdepends. In this case you
should file a bug report or write a comment to AUR.

Heiko
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:16 AM
Ionut Biru
 
Default Is there a clean solution to get completely rid of Pulseaudio?

On 12/23/2011 12:11 PM, Ralf Madorf wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 03:39 -0600, C Anthony Risinger wrote:
>> Do not install an application requiring it?
>
> Why does GDM require it?
> Why does GNOME3 require it?
>

why are you talking about it here? We are not GNOME.

but to answer your question, gdm always was a instance of a user
session(gdm) modified.

To work everything in the login manager, the way it looks, the way it
works, as in power manager, suspend, video, everything! is done by
gnome-settings-daemon.


>> You'll need to provide context about what you're trying to accomplish
>> (clear and simple goals) and what you've already done (eg. I ran command
>> xyz, I installed gnome, etc ...)
>
> The goal is a DAW with a professional audio card from RME. Since PA
> isn't needed, but it's always good to cause trouble, I won't have it
> installed.
>
> I wish to have the libre to use GNOME3, even if I now use Xfce only.
>
>> So far we've only learned PA probably sux, you don't want it on you system,
>> and some random bits about Debian ;-) ... best to assume nothing of the
>> solution since that's what you are here requesting. Simply state your
>> end-goals, the issue(s), and the path taken thus far.
>
> I installed ArchLinux, upgraded it by the basic repositories and only
> installed Xfce, GDM, some mailers, NVIDIA driver, nothing else until
> now.

if you don't like gdm, remove it and replace it with lxdm,lightdm or
other crap out there.


>
> I'm going to set up a DAW and graphic machine with a kernel-rt, Ardour3
> with video timeline, GIMP etc..
>
> I like to install GNOME3 too.
>
>> IIRC PA is split into a library package, among others. Many pkgs will dep
>> libpulse, but it cannot be loaded (or possibly will not) without the
>> accompanying support packages.
>>
>> Audio is not my thing, but I absorb passively often as possible. PA will
>> play nicely with other impls by suspending itself and releasing the
>> hardware when requested, allowing (JACK and ?) others to assume control.
>> My guess is there is not an issue here ... I suggest moving forward until a
>> concrete problem is encountered, or running headless.
>>
>> While I'm not into pro audio, I do use PA successfully on several machines
>> daily with great satisfaction and zero issue; be sure you understand the
>> difference between ALSA, alsa-lib, and PA.
>
> It already is an issue. I don't need PA for my work. Even if it should
> cause no issue, I don't need it.
>
> - Ralf
>
>
>


--
IonuČ›
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:35 AM
Ralf Madorf
 
Default Is there a clean solution to get completely rid of Pulseaudio?

Wow

I first just asked for a solution similar to Debian dummy packages and
get tons [1] of insults.

Then I explained why I (and I know a lot of other people) will install
e.g. GNOME. I'll do it again. We might wish to use this DE or simply GDM
as login manager. I don't blame Arch Linux packages, I just blame
answers like "don't use gnome".

No netiquette?

I was silent since days, stopped putting in my 2 cents all the time and
now I asked for help and get those answers?! That's strange and creepy.

Anyway, if somebody should know a solution how to use GNOME without PA,
any hints are welcome.

Cheers!

Ralf

[1] OT, but too funny, since I got all mails two times, even more than
1k of old mails Evolution already had downloaded from the server.
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:45 AM
Ralf Madorf
 
Default Is there a clean solution to get completely rid of Pulseaudio?

On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 11:13 +0100, Heiko Baums wrote:
> Am Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:53:56 +0100
> schrieb Ralf Madorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:
>
> > I know this command, but this won't solve the issue, that PA on Arch
> > Linux is a dependency for software that don't need PA.
> > I want a clean solution.
>
> Run pacman -Qi pulseaudio to see what package(s) forces you to install
> PA.

I run this before I posted my request [1]. I also know that I can
compile gnome-settings-daemon, see the links of my first mail.
But at another time, when I e.g. install GNOME, then other packages will
install PA.
GNOME doesn't need PA, if you use it the way I will use all DEs, since
I'll use jack, no desktop sound, no Skype etc., just pro and consumer
multimedia apps, flashplayer.
There hopefully is a way to fake that PA is installed.

- Ralf

[1]
# pacman -Qi pulseaudio
Name : pulseaudio
Version : 1.1-1
URL : http://pulseaudio.org/
Licenses : GPL LGPL
Groups : None
Provides : None
Depends On : libpulse=1.1-1 rtkit libtool speex tdb udev fftw
orc libsamplerate
Optional Deps : avahi: zeroconf support
bluez: bluetooth support
gconf: configuration through gconf (paprefs)
jack: jack support
lirc-utils: infra-red support
openssl: RAOP support
python2-pyqt: Equalizer GUI (qpaeq)
Required By : gnome-settings-daemon pulseaudio-alsa
Conflicts With : None
Replaces : None
Installed Size : 5456.00 K
Packager : Jan Alexander Steffens (heftig)
<jan.steffens@gmail.com>
Architecture : x86_64
Build Date : Thu 20 Oct 2011 05:26:48 PM CEST
Install Date : Sat 10 Dec 2011 04:13:41 PM CET
Install Reason : Installed as a dependency for another package
Install Script : Yes
Description : A featureful, general-purpose sound server
 

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