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Old 12-22-2011, 05:37 PM
Alexander van den Berghe
 
Default pacman -Syu fails due to conflict with mtab?

On 12/22/2011 07:23 PM, Vitor Eiji Justus Sakaguti wrote:

2011/12/22 Angel Velásquez<angvp@archlinux.org>:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 22/12/11 14:40, David C. Rankin wrote:

On 12/22/2011 11:19 AM, Angel Velásquez wrote:

The experts, normal people, and even noobs like me would say to
you .. PLEASE READ THE NEWS DUDE, (its like the 5th time you
write a mail asking questions, when the solution it's posted on
the front page)..
Don't you think you're big enough to learn this amazing trick?
Geez....

Johnathan responded in a civil helpful tone. You would do well to
learn from his example.


Yes he did a top-posty e-mail (again showing that people doesn't fit
well with the netetiquette) that was useful to you. I think he will do
that until the day that he will realize that you're always asking this
kind of questions (solved questions that you're lazy to look).

Why don't you reconsider to stop asking before read the whole
website?, the rest of the people is beging you to do it!. This is not
your first, second or third time you have done this, remember that you
have asked solved stuff several times.

I'm being uncivil with you, because you finished my patience level,
and it's untolerable to get mails from you everytime you can't look
the website.

Instead of acusing me of being uncivil, I hope you learn the lesson,
it's not so hard, and i'm confident you can.

This is the correct workflow before you ask:

1) archlinux.org
2) if !1 .. www.google.com
3) if !2 bbs.archlinux.org or this list

Please reconsider your asking workflow, you can't hope for civilized
answers when the answer is there but you're to lazy to give a look,
and give us a mail breaking our balls...

But don't worry, now i've added you to a special label and your mails
are automatically moved to trash. Thanks for wasting our time.

Oh btw, i've said the same to you before, in a civilized way and you
didn't replied or ignored, I'm being civilized in this e-mail again
(being honest doesn't make me uncivilized) .. so I hope you get the point.

Thanks.

+1.

+1
And if you're to lazy to check the site at least subscribe to the
arch-announce mailing list. Answers to questions like this are than send
to you completely free of charge wihtout you have to do any real effort
for it.


Alex
 
Old 12-22-2011, 06:21 PM
Karol Blazewicz
 
Default pacman -Syu fails due to conflict with mtab?

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Alexander van den Berghe
<alexvdberghe@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
> And if you're to lazy *to check the site at least subscribe to the
> arch-announce mailing list. Answers to questions like this are than send to
> you completely free of charge wihtout you have to do any real effort for it.
>
> Alex

Or maybe try using pacmatic:
http://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/any/pacmatic/
 
Old 12-22-2011, 06:59 PM
Kevin Chadwick
 
Default pacman -Syu fails due to conflict with mtab?

> > This is the correct workflow before you ask:
> >
> > 1) archlinux.org
> > 2) if !1 .. www.google.com
> > 3) if !2 bbs.archlinux.org or this list

It's amasing how often I see this on all > medium volume lists. You have
to reply to the reply of every message you send to the qmail list as an
antispam measure. The same system could ask users to check for an
answer, but maybe that would be even more annoying for frequent
responders. I guess it could ask for the first twenty times but that
would require modifying the code.
 
Old 12-22-2011, 07:02 PM
Karol Blazewicz
 
Default pacman -Syu fails due to conflict with mtab?

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:59 PM, Kevin Chadwick <ma1l1ists@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> > This is the correct workflow before you ask:
>> >
>> > 1) archlinux.org
>> > 2) if !1 .. www.google.com
>> > 3) if !2 bbs.archlinux.org or this list
>
> It's amasing how often I see this on all > medium volume lists. You have
> to reply to the reply of every message you send to the qmail list as an
> antispam measure. The same system could ask users to check for an
> answer, but maybe that would be even more annoying for frequent
> responders. I guess it could ask for the first twenty times but that
> would require modifying the code.

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=760971
 
Old 12-22-2011, 07:12 PM
Lorenzo Bandieri
 
Default pacman -Syu fails due to conflict with mtab?

> Or maybe try using pacmatic:
> http://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/any/pacmatic/

+1

I strongly suggest to the OP the use of pacmatic [1]. It's really an
useful tool, especially if you don't check regularly the news (as you
should).

[1] http://kmkeen.com/pacmatic/

Regards,

Lorenzo
--
Nothing is interesting if you're not interested.
 
Old 12-22-2011, 07:48 PM
Jonathan Vasquez
 
Default pacman -Syu fails due to conflict with mtab?

Angel, I completed understand what you are saying, since it's something
that even I go through (Both ways, when is the right time to ask a question
without being rejected by people and or elitists of Linux [Not calling you
an elitist in any way though], and answering questions), but remember that
we are all human beings and have feelings. Sometimes the best way to teach
someone a lesson, or basically make them search for themselves, is by not
responding at all. I definitely didn't know that this was going on for a
while since I'm new to the mailing list, but have been using Arch for a
while (Even contributed to the AUR). Overall, there definitely is a limit
to the assistance that another person can provide, and the assistance that
you receive from others should be a last resort after you attempted your
best to find the answer for yourself .. which is basically what everyone
has been saying.

- Jon

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Lorenzo Bandieri <
lorenzo.bandieri@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Or maybe try using pacmatic:
> > http://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/any/pacmatic/
>
> +1
>
> I strongly suggest to the OP the use of pacmatic [1]. It's really an
> useful tool, especially if you don't check regularly the news (as you
> should).
>
> [1] http://kmkeen.com/pacmatic/
>
> Regards,
>
> Lorenzo
> --
> Nothing is interesting if you're not interested.
>



--
Jonathan Vasquez
 
Old 12-23-2011, 08:22 AM
Nicolas Sebrecht
 
Default pacman -Syu fails due to conflict with mtab?

The 22/12/11, Angel Velásquez wrote:

> The experts, normal people, and even noobs like me would say to you ..
> PLEASE READ THE NEWS DUDE, (its like the 5th time you write a mail
> asking questions, when the solution it's posted on the front page)..
>
> Don't you think you're big enough to learn this amazing trick?

OTOH, news related to updates are *not* at the correct place on the home
web page. When I do admin tasks I would expect to read news in my
_shell_ just before the update.

Also, think that the packages updates might be later done offline after
a refresh & downloadonly.

People at Gentoo did a good tool exactly for this purpose:

(shell prompt) # eselect news
Usage: eselect news <action> <options>

Standard actions:
help Display help text
usage Display usage information
version Display version information

Extra actions:
count Display number of news items
new Count unread news items (default)
all Count all news items
list List news items
purge Purge read news
read <item>... Read news items
--mbox Output in mbox format
--quiet Suppress output, only change status
--raw Output in raw format
new Read unread news items (default)
all Read all news items
item Number of item (from 'list' action)
unread <item>... Mark read news items as unread again
all Mark all news items as unread
item Number of item (from 'list' action)
#

News sample:

(shell prompt) # eselect news read 2
2010-03-25-python-3.1
Title Python 3.1
Author Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <A...@ge...o.org>
Posted 2010-03-25
Revision 1

Python 3 is a new major version of Python and is intentionally
incompatible with Python 2. Many external modules have not been ported
yet to Python 3, so Python 2 still needs to be installed. You can
benefit from having Python 3 installed without setting Python 3.1 as
main active version of Python. Currently you should not set Python 3.1
as main active version of Python. When setting it becomes recommended,
a separate news item will be created to notify users.

Although Python 3.1 should not be set as main active version of Python,
you should run python-updater after installation of Python 3.1. By
default, modules that support both Python 2 and Python 3 are installed
for both the active version of Python 2 and the active version of Python
3 when both Python 2 and Python 3 are installed.

It is recommended to use a UTF-8 locale to avoid potential problems.
Especially C and POSIX locales are discouraged. If locale has not been
explicitly set, then POSIX locale is used, so you should ensure that
locale has been set. Problems occurring only with non-UTF-8 locales
should be reported directly to upstream developers of given packages.
See http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/utf-8.xml for more information about
UTF-8.


With 'eselect news read' you only get fresh news you didn't read yet.
This feature was a big success, very appreciated by users.

--
Nicolas Sebrecht
 
Old 12-23-2011, 08:43 AM
Ralf Madorf
 
Default pacman -Syu fails due to conflict with mtab?

On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 10:22 +0100, Nicolas Sebrecht wrote:
> The 22/12/11, Angel Velásquez wrote:
>
> > The experts, normal people, and even noobs like me would say to you ..
> > PLEASE READ THE NEWS DUDE, (its like the 5th time you write a mail
> > asking questions, when the solution it's posted on the front page)..
> >
> > Don't you think you're big enough to learn this amazing trick?
>
> OTOH, news related to updates are *not* at the correct place on the home
> web page. When I do admin tasks I would expect to read news in my
> _shell_ just before the update.

+1

Some news might be no news anymore, it's not for everybody useful to
upgrade the Linux very often.

I got all upgrade information using Google e.g. linked to the news.
Anyway I wonder why people aren't allowed to ask every question. There
were not hundred people asking about mtab at this list, just one person
and this person might have missed the information by the news.

I read tons of threads on Arch forums and I had to read hundreds of
times replies saying "use Google", "search the Wiki", "search the forum"
+ tons of misinformation from experts aka moderators, since they
sometimes not really experts for everything.

- Ralf
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:21 AM
Oon-Ee Ng
 
Default pacman -Syu fails due to conflict with mtab?

On Dec 23, 2011 5:43 PM, "Ralf Madorf" <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 10:22 +0100, Nicolas Sebrecht wrote:
> > The 22/12/11, Angel Velásquez wrote:
> >
> > > The experts, normal people, and even noobs like me would say to you ..
> > > PLEASE READ THE NEWS DUDE, (its like the 5th time you write a mail
> > > asking questions, when the solution it's posted on the front page)..
> > >
> > > Don't you think you're big enough to learn this amazing trick?
> >
> > OTOH, news related to updates are *not* at the correct place on the home
> > web page. When I do admin tasks I would expect to read news in my
> > _shell_ just before the update.
>
> +1
>
> Some news might be no news anymore, it's not for everybody useful to
> upgrade the Linux very often.

Then perhaps there are better distros to use then Arch for the purpose
>
> I got all upgrade information using Google e.g. linked to the news.
> Anyway I wonder why people aren't allowed to ask every question. There
> were not hundred people asking about mtab at this list, just one person
> and this person might have missed the information by the news.

Perhaps looking at the person's prior posting history would be a good idea.
This wasn't a frivolous complaint made randomly.
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:29 AM
Alexander van den Berghe
 
Default pacman -Syu fails due to conflict with mtab?

On 12/23/2011 10:43 AM, Ralf Madorf wrote:

On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 10:22 +0100, Nicolas Sebrecht wrote:

The 22/12/11, Angel Velásquez wrote:


The experts, normal people, and even noobs like me would say to you ..
PLEASE READ THE NEWS DUDE, (its like the 5th time you write a mail
asking questions, when the solution it's posted on the front page)..

Don't you think you're big enough to learn this amazing trick?

OTOH, news related to updates are *not* at the correct place on the home
web page. When I do admin tasks I would expect to read news in my
_shell_ just before the update.

+1

Some news might be no news anymore, it's not for everybody useful to
upgrade the Linux very often.
For such people it is not advised to use a rolling release distribution
such as Arch. Using Arch without updating often enough is asking for
problems.

I got all upgrade information using Google e.g. linked to the news.
Anyway I wonder why people aren't allowed to ask every question. There
were not hundred people asking about mtab at this list, just one person
and this person might have missed the information by the news.

I read tons of threads on Arch forums and I had to read hundreds of
times replies saying "use Google", "search the Wiki", "search the forum"
+ tons of misinformation from experts aka moderators, since they
sometimes not really experts for everything.

- Ralf


It is frustrating for people to see the same questions asked over and
over. Especially while the solution can be easily found on the home
page, wiki or forums. These kind of questions just pollute the medium
through which they where asked with noise, which makes it more difficult
to find the good information.


Alex
 

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