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Old 12-16-2011, 01:31 AM
Denis A. Altoé Falqueto
 
Default Top Posting Revisited

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 12:17 AM, gt <codered12@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello folks, i'll probably get flamed for reviving a very controversial,
> yet consistently brought up topic.

I think it is very pertinent. I'll start a similar post in archlinux-br.

> I suggest all of the top-posting haters should including one of these
> links or similar in their signatures.
>
> http://idallen.com/topposting.html
>
> http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html

Thanks for the links. I already have a similar signature, but will update it.

--
A: Because it obfuscates the reading.
Q: Why is top posting so bad?

-------------------------------------------
Denis A. Altoe Falqueto
Linux user #524555
-------------------------------------------
 
Old 12-16-2011, 02:07 AM
Sander Jansen
 
Default Top Posting Revisited

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 8:17 PM, gt <codered12@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello folks, i'll probably get flamed for reviving a very controversial,
> yet consistently brought up topic.
>
> I have seen a similar thread last year, and every other day, someone
> points out to someone that top posting is bad.
>
> I was off the list for a while, and now when i came back, the story is
> still the same.
>
> I know top posting is bad, and i too sometimes preach people to avoid
> it. But from what i've seen, most of the times, people don't bother, or
> simply don't know what's wrong.
>
> Instead of having top-posting related mails in every thread, there
> should be a better way out.
>
> I suggest all of the top-posting haters should including one of these
> links or similar in their signatures.
>
> http://idallen.com/topposting.html
>
> http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
>
> Also, we can have a forum and mailing list etiquette drive for a few
> days, with mention in the arch linux news, the mailing list, and setting
> it as the topic in the irc channel also.
>
> I know this is probably overkill, but it'll probably inform a lot more
> people about these issues than some stray posts in every other thread.
>
> PS: Since arch is always ahead of the other distros in adopting new
> stuff and bringing about change, let's be the first ones to spread some
> netiquette.

Perhaps you could do something more useful with your time. For
example, you could write chromium browser plugin that forces
bottom-posting in gmail...
 
Old 12-16-2011, 02:21 AM
Calvin Morrison
 
Default Top Posting Revisited

On 15 December 2011 22:07, Sander Jansen <s.jansen@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 8:17 PM, gt <codered12@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello folks, i'll probably get flamed for reviving a very controversial,
> > yet consistently brought up topic.
> >
> > I have seen a similar thread last year, and every other day, someone
> > points out to someone that top posting is bad.
> >
> > I was off the list for a while, and now when i came back, the story is
> > still the same.
> >
> > I know top posting is bad, and i too sometimes preach people to avoid
> > it. But from what i've seen, most of the times, people don't bother, or
> > simply don't know what's wrong.
> >
> > Instead of having top-posting related mails in every thread, there
> > should be a better way out.
> >
> > I suggest all of the top-posting haters should including one of these
> > links or similar in their signatures.
> >
> > http://idallen.com/topposting.html
> >
> > http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
> >
> > Also, we can have a forum and mailing list etiquette drive for a few
> > days, with mention in the arch linux news, the mailing list, and setting
> > it as the topic in the irc channel also.
> >
> > I know this is probably overkill, but it'll probably inform a lot more
> > people about these issues than some stray posts in every other thread.
> >
> > PS: Since arch is always ahead of the other distros in adopting new
> > stuff and bringing about change, let's be the first ones to spread some
> > netiquette.
>
> Perhaps you could do something more useful with your time. For
> example, you could write chromium browser plugin that forces
> bottom-posting in gmail...
>

Yeah lets all just spam fuck gmail devs because they won't add a automatic
bottom posting feature.

Seriously...
 
Old 12-16-2011, 02:35 AM
Kazuo Teramoto
 
Default Top Posting Revisited

On 2011-12-16T01:21:22, Calvin Morrison wrote:
>Yeah lets all just spam fuck gmail devs because they won't add a automatic
>bottom posting feature.
>

I don't think this is a solution.

Part of the whole 'bottom posting' thing is about *reading* and
*thinking* about the reply and not *automatic* replying to a message.
 
Old 12-16-2011, 02:43 AM
Madhurya Kakati
 
Default Top Posting Revisited

On Dec 16, 2011 9:06 AM, "Kazuo Teramoto" <kaz.rag@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2011-12-16T01:21:22, Calvin Morrison wrote:
> >Yeah lets all just spam fuck gmail devs because they won't add a
automatic
> >bottom posting feature.
> >
>
> I don't think this is a solution.
>
> Part of the whole 'bottom posting' thing is about *reading* and
> *thinking* about the reply and not *automatic* replying to a message.
>

I did top posting sometimes because gmail.com on my low end phone's opera
mini browser didn't allow me to reply inline. All this has changed now
since I got an Android smartphone.
 
Old 12-16-2011, 02:44 AM
Alex Liu
 
Default Top Posting Revisited

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Kazuo Teramoto <kaz.rag@gmail.com> wrote:
> Part of the whole 'bottom posting' thing is about *reading* and
> *thinking* about the reply and not *automatic* replying to a message.

This.

I think it's not about if the reply is above or below whatever you
quote but because a full quote just makes no sense in, let's say, 90%
of the cases. It just stretches the message and has no actual benefit
over just quoting the part you want to refer to.
It's annoying in message boards as well, by the way. Unfortunately
it's much more common there. People tend to full quote everything --
maybe because they are just to lazy to strip the parts that have no
value to the answer.

However, there exists a bottom posting script for Greasemonkey if you
want to check that out.
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/35866
An according lab feature has been suggested some time ago in the Gmail
group, but as of no there has been no reply by one of the Gmail team
members.
 
Old 12-16-2011, 02:47 AM
"Ralf Mardorf"
 
Default Top Posting Revisited

-----Original Message-----
From: arch-general-bounces@archlinux.org on behalf of Calvin Morrison
Sent: Fri 12/16/2011 04:21
To: General Discussion about Arch Linux
Subject: Re: [arch-general] Top Posting Revisited

On 15 December 2011 22:07, Sander Jansen <s.jansen@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 8:17 PM, gt <codered12@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello folks, i'll probably get flamed for reviving a very controversial,
> > yet consistently brought up topic.
> >
> > I have seen a similar thread last year, and every other day, someone
> > points out to someone that top posting is bad.
> >
> > I was off the list for a while, and now when i came back, the story is
> > still the same.
> >
> > I know top posting is bad, and i too sometimes preach people to avoid
> > it. But from what i've seen, most of the times, people don't bother, or
> > simply don't know what's wrong.
> >
> > Instead of having top-posting related mails in every thread, there
> > should be a better way out.
> >
> > I suggest all of the top-posting haters should including one of these
> > links or similar in their signatures.
> >
> > http://idallen.com/topposting.html
> >
> > http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
> >
> > Also, we can have a forum and mailing list etiquette drive for a few
> > days, with mention in the arch linux news, the mailing list, and setting
> > it as the topic in the irc channel also.
> >
> > I know this is probably overkill, but it'll probably inform a lot more
> > people about these issues than some stray posts in every other thread.
> >
> > PS: Since arch is always ahead of the other distros in adopting new
> > stuff and bringing about change, let's be the first ones to spread some
> > netiquette.
>
> Perhaps you could do something more useful with your time. For
> example, you could write chromium browser plugin that forces
> bottom-posting in gmail...
>

Yeah lets all just spam fuck gmail devs because they won't add a automatic
bottom posting feature.

Seriously...

+++

Since I'm uncertain how to handle incoming emails in the future I still use my providers M$ thingy. I prefer bottom posting and plain text, but not only my provider's M$ thingy doesn't mark the original message with signs for the quote and there's no option to use plain text. Today it's very common to write HTML and to answer above the original message.

This odd behaviour might have one advantage. People doing top posting perhaps read the complete mail, before they reply, while answering under the quotes very often means reading a sentence, then to answer, reading the next sentence and to answer this etc., hence the context could get lost, this could lead to misconceptions and those could lead to flame wars.

I'm from the Ruhrgebiet, here we don't care much about netiquette. Do we really need rules and rules and rules?

+1 for bottom posting but I'm completely against instructing people not to post as it's common on business correspondence.

We are the freaks. Today nearly everybody is using HTML and top posting at least in Germany is what averaged people do.

- Ralf
 
Old 12-16-2011, 02:53 AM
Auguste Pop
 
Default Top Posting Revisited

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Alex Liu <rnkn22@gmail.com> wrote:
> However, there exists a bottom posting script for Greasemonkey if you
> want to check that out.
> http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/35866
> An according lab feature has been suggested some time ago in the Gmail
> group, but as of no there has been no reply by one of the Gmail team
> members.

i'm not sure how the script works. i went to the link you gave and hit
the install button. i closed all chromium instances and opened the
browser again. still, bottom posting is not automatic.
 
Old 12-16-2011, 03:01 AM
Alex Liu
 
Default Top Posting Revisited

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Auguste Pop <auguste@gmail.com> wrote:
> i'm not sure how the script works. i went to the link you gave and hit
> the install button. i closed all chromium instances and opened the
> browser again. still, bottom posting is not automatic.

Might be a Chromium issue. I'm on Firefox v3.6.13 on Ubuntu here
(yeah, ancient, I know, but the computers at work are unfortunately
not as bleeding edge as my home machine) and it works. It should
generally just move the quoted part to the top of the message, strip
the signature (if there is any) and place the cursor below that. If
you use it with Gmail's "only quote selected parts of the message"
feature, it pretty much does a pre-setup for bottom posting for you.

I can try it at home tonight on Arch and Chromium and see if there's
any problems.
 
Old 12-16-2011, 03:03 AM
"Jeffrey Lynn Parke Jr."
 
Default Top Posting Revisited

I don't really think that people put any conscious thought into if they
should top or bottom post. A majority of mail clients and
the aforementioned Gmail default to top posting. What I would like to know
is why is this the common practice. Obviously, people on forums and mailing
lists like everything in the top down, first to last format. This
frustrates me. I'll have to look into that greasemonkey plugin.. I am
always fighting gmail on this issue.


Ringmaster

--
"Breathe Deeply and Dream"
 

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