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Old 11-25-2011, 11:51 AM
atilla ontas
 
Default Localization issues (Attention Developers)

Hi. I' m an experienced translator from Turkey. Contributing Arch
turkish translations for a while. I have noticed today; some strings
in pacman-scripts are very hard to translate. You see, Turkic
languages are very differ from Latin origin languages; structure of
sentence is almost reversed. So, using multiple "%s" variables in
source string makes a lot of trouble. It is hard to translate and
translated strings are hard to understand for native Turkish speakers.
For example;

"Running %s as an unprivileged user will result in non-root
ownership
of the packaged files. Try using the %s environment by
placing %s in
the %s array in %s."

will translated into turkish properly, if second, third, fourth and
fifth %s variables are supposed to %d, %n, %f, %z :

"%s uygulamasını yetkisiz kullanıcı olarak çalıştırmak paketlenmiş
dosyaların kök olmayan sahiplik almasına yol açacaktır. %z dosyası
içindeki %f satırına %n değerini yerleştirerek %d ortamını kullanmayı
deneyin."

You see, how variables reversed? So if you, developers, mind to and if
it is possible use only one %s in a string it will be much
appreciated. Also, if you, developers, mind to add comments what is %s
(a command, an application, what??) it will be great help to
translators. Greetings...
 
Old 11-25-2011, 11:53 AM
Sven-Hendrik Haase
 
Default Localization issues (Attention Developers)

On 11/25/2011 01:51 PM, atilla ontas wrote:
> Hi. I' m an experienced translator from Turkey. Contributing Arch
> turkish translations for a while. I have noticed today; some strings
> in pacman-scripts are very hard to translate. You see, Turkic
> languages are very differ from Latin origin languages; structure of
> sentence is almost reversed. So, using multiple "%s" variables in
> source string makes a lot of trouble. It is hard to translate and
> translated strings are hard to understand for native Turkish speakers.
> For example;
>
> "Running %s as an unprivileged user will result in non-root
ownership
> of the packaged files. Try using the %s environment by
placing %s in
> the %s array in %s."
>
> will translated into turkish properly, if second, third, fourth and
> fifth %s variables are supposed to %d, %n, %f, %z :
>
> "%s uygulamasını yetkisiz kullanıcı olarak çalıştırmak paketlenmiş
> dosyaların kök olmayan sahiplik almasına yol açacaktır. %z dosyası
> içindeki %f satırına %n değerini yerleştirerek %d ortamını kullanmayı
> deneyin."
>
> You see, how variables reversed? So if you, developers, mind to and if
> it is possible use only one %s in a string it will be much
> appreciated. Also, if you, developers, mind to add comments what is %s
> (a command, an application, what??) it will be great help to
> translators. Greetings...
Send this to pacman-dev to talk to the devs.
 
Old 11-25-2011, 12:03 PM
atilla ontas
 
Default Localization issues (Attention Developers)

2011/11/25 Sven-Hendrik Haase <sh@lutzhaase.com>:
> Send this to pacman-dev to talk to the devs.
>

Thank you. Sorry for the mess. Message sent to pacman-dev
 
Old 11-25-2011, 12:03 PM
atilla ontas
 
Default Localization issues (Attention Developers)

Hi. I' m an experienced translator from Turkey. Contributing Arch
turkish translations for a while. I have noticed today; some strings
in pacman-scripts are very hard to translate. You see, Turkic
languages are very differ from Latin origin languages; structure of
sentence is almost reversed. So, using multiple "%s" variables in
source string makes a lot of trouble. It is hard to translate and
translated strings are hard to understand for native Turkish speakers.
For example;

"Running %s as an unprivileged user will result in non-root
ownership
of the packaged files. Try using the %s environment by
placing %s in
the %s array in %s."

will translated into turkish properly, if second, third, fourth and
fifth %s variables are supposed to %d, %n, %f, %z :

"%s uygulamasını yetkisiz kullanıcı olarak çalıştırmak paketlenmiş
dosyaların kök olmayan sahiplik almasına yol açacaktır. %z dosyası
içindeki %f satırına %n değerini yerleştirerek %d ortamını kullanmayı
deneyin."

You see, how variables reversed? So if you, developers, mind to and if
it is possible use only one %s in a string it will be much
appreciated. Also, if you, developers, mind to add comments what is %s
(a command, an application, what??) it will be great help to
translators. Greetings...
 
Old 11-25-2011, 04:33 PM
Slobodan Terzić
 
Default Localization issues (Attention Developers)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 25.11.2011. 14:03, atilla ontas wrote:
> Hi. I' m an experienced translator from Turkey. Contributing Arch
> turkish translations for a while. I have noticed today; some strings
> in pacman-scripts are very hard to translate. You see, Turkic
> languages are very differ from Latin origin languages; structure of
> sentence is almost reversed. So, using multiple "%s" variables in
> source string makes a lot of trouble. It is hard to translate and
> translated strings are hard to understand for native Turkish speakers.
> For example;
>
> "Running %s as an unprivileged user will result in non-root
ownership
> of the packaged files. Try using the %s environment by
placing %s in
> the %s array in %s."
>
> will translated into turkish properly, if second, third, fourth and
> fifth %s variables are supposed to %d, %n, %f, %z :
>
> "%s uygulamasını yetkisiz kullanıcı olarak çalıştırmak paketlenmiş
> dosyaların kök olmayan sahiplik almasına yol açacaktır. %z dosyası
> içindeki %f satırına %n değerini yerleştirerek %d ortamını kullanmayı
> deneyin."
>
> You see, how variables reversed? So if you, developers, mind to and if
> it is possible use only one %s in a string it will be much
> appreciated. Also, if you, developers, mind to add comments what is %s
> (a command, an application, what??) it will be great help to
> translators. Greetings...
>

Hi,
Would this help?

http://tinyurl.com/7gmv54r

Best regards,

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Old 11-25-2011, 07:01 PM
atilla ontas
 
Default Localization issues (Attention Developers)

2011/11/25 Slobodan Terzić <githzerai06@gmail.com>:
>
> Hi,
> Would this help?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/7gmv54r
>
> Best regards,
>

May be... I think the page you mentioned here is for developers not
translators. But i'm in doubt. Do you mean using like;

"%2$d Zeichen lang ist die Zeichenkette `%1$s'"

as told on that page? Nevertheless there is one %d and one %s
variables in the example, as you can see... But thank you anyway.
 
Old 11-25-2011, 07:20 PM
Slobodan Terzić
 
Default Localization issues (Attention Developers)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 25.11.2011. 21:01, atilla ontas wrote:
>
> May be... I think the page you mentioned here is for developers
> not translators. But i'm in doubt. Do you mean using like;
>
> "%2$d Zeichen lang ist die Zeichenkette `%1$s'"
>
> as told on that page? Nevertheless there is one %d and one %s
> variables in the example, as you can see... But thank you anyway.
>
>

As I understood, it's intended for translators as well.

"If the word order in the above German translation would be correct
one would have to write

"%2$d Zeichen lang ist die Zeichenkette `%1$s'"

The routines in msgfmt know about this special notation. "

msgfmt is used to produce mo files from po files, so I guess
translators could also benefit from it.
(to be honest, I haven't tried it yet, as I found out about it just
recently, but if it does work, that would be awesome)

Anyway, though I agree with you on most parts (especially about more
comments), AFAIK, changing from c-format to something else would
require major changes in code, so I think we should explore all
features of current translation system before anything else.
Also, I'm no coder, so I might be (very) wrong.

Best regards,


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Old 11-25-2011, 07:48 PM
Slobodan Terzić
 
Default Localization issues (Attention Developers)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 25.11.2011. 21:20, Slobodan Terzić wrote:

> (to be honest, I haven't tried it yet, as I found out about it
> just recently, but if it does work, that would be awesome)


So, now I had to test it.


#, c-format
msgid "%s is owned by %s %s
"
msgstr "%2$s %3$s sadrži %1$s
"


Adn the result is:

$ pacman -Qo /usr/bin/pacman
pacman 4.0.1-1 sadrži /usr/bin/pacman


(back in english it's "pacman 4.0.1-1 owns /usr/bin/pacman")

So it does work, and it is awesome.

Best regards,
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:16 PM
atilla ontas
 
Default Localization issues (Attention Developers)

2011/11/25 Slobodan Terzić <githzerai06@gmail.com>:
> msgid "%s is owned by %s %s
"
> msgstr "%2$s %3$s sadrži %1$s
"

OK. Thanks for clarification and help. I think i'll do it as
suggested. Thanks again.
 
Old 11-25-2011, 09:34 PM
Allan McRae
 
Default Localization issues (Attention Developers)

On 26/11/11 06:48, Slobodan Terzić wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 25.11.2011. 21:20, Slobodan Terzić wrote:


(to be honest, I haven't tried it yet, as I found out about it
just recently, but if it does work, that would be awesome)



So, now I had to test it.


#, c-format
msgid "%s is owned by %s %s
"
msgstr "%2$s %3$s sadrži %1$s
"


Adn the result is:

$ pacman -Qo /usr/bin/pacman
pacman 4.0.1-1 sadrži /usr/bin/pacman


(back in english it's "pacman 4.0.1-1 owns /usr/bin/pacman")

So it does work, and it is awesome.



That only works for libalpm/pacman (written in C), not for
makepkg/pacman-key etc (written in bash...)


Allan
 

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