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Old 11-21-2011, 06:23 PM
Bernardo Barros
 
Default pacman new generation

Perhaps the developers want to take a look at this distribution.It is
reported that is written in a `purely functional package management'
and tries to be a highly safe OS, where `upgrading a system is as
reliable as reinstalling from scratch'.

http://nixos.org/nixos/

> Because the files of a new configuration don’t overwrite old ones, you
> can (atomically) roll back to a previous configuration. For instance,
> if after a nixos-rebuild switch you discover that you don’t like the
> new configuration, you can just go back

It can be an inspiration for a new version of pacman rewritten in
haskell? Also Don Stewart's talk about 'Scripting with Types' might
inspire someone too (BTW since he started arch-haskell I think he is a
Arch user):

http://donsbot.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/semicolon.pdf
 
Old 11-21-2011, 06:40 PM
Thorsten Töpper
 
Default pacman new generation

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:23:58 -0800
Bernardo Barros <bernardobarros2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Perhaps the developers want to take a look at this distribution.It is
> reported that is written in a `purely functional package management'
> and tries to be a highly safe OS, where `upgrading a system is as
> reliable as reinstalling from scratch'.
>
> http://nixos.org/nixos/
>
> > Because the files of a new configuration don’t overwrite old ones,
> > you can (atomically) roll back to a previous configuration. For
> > instance, if after a nixos-rebuild switch you discover that you
> > don’t like the new configuration, you can just go back
>
> It can be an inspiration for a new version of pacman rewritten in
> haskell? Also Don Stewart's talk about 'Scripting with Types' might
> inspire someone too (BTW since he started arch-haskell I think he is a
> Arch user):
>
> http://donsbot.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/semicolon.pdf

Well I'm just a TU but I guess most people here are always pleasured for
people bringing up their ideas, when they want to realize them by
themselves.

Seriously, it's probably meant like this but your mail reads like a
"Hey why don't you learn $INSERT_LANG_HERE and rewrite your whole
system."

I've not participated in pacman development myself so I guess I should
stfu myself, but for me this proposal just reads like a kick into the
faces of Allan, Dan and all the other people who did so.

Kind Regards
Thorsten
--
Jabber: atsutane@freethoughts.de Blog: http://atsutane.freethoughts.de/
Key: 295AFBF4 FP: 39F8 80E5 0E49 A4D1 1341 E8F9 39E4 F17F 295A FBF4
 
Old 11-21-2011, 06:43 PM
Bernardo Barros
 
Default pacman new generation

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Thorsten Tpper
<atsutane@freethoughts.de> wrote:
> Seriously, it's probably meant like this but your mail reads like a
> "Hey why don't you learn $INSERT_LANG_HERE and rewrite your whole
> system."
>

Hello Thorsten, no, you got it wrong.

It's about ideas not languages. I think it makes sense in a rolling
release OS like Arch.

Ideas like for example

pacman --rollback

Would be possible then
 
Old 11-21-2011, 06:49 PM
Bernardo Barros
 
Default pacman new generation

Those guys wrote their ideas down here for those interested:

http://www.st.ewi.tudelft.nl/~dolstra/pubs/nixos-jfp-final.pdf
 
Old 11-21-2011, 06:57 PM
Rogutės Sparnuotos
 
Default pacman new generation

Bernardo Barros (2011-11-21 11:43):
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Thorsten Töpper
> <atsutane@freethoughts.de> wrote:
> > Seriously, it's probably meant like this but your mail reads like a
> > "Hey why don't you learn $INSERT_LANG_HERE and rewrite your whole
> > system."
> >
>
> Hello Thorsten, no, you got it wrong.
>
> It's about ideas not languages. I think it makes sense in a rolling
> release OS like Arch.
>
> Ideas like for example
>
> pacman --rollback
>
> Would be possible then

"Rolling release" and "rollback" don't go together. You want to move
forward (upgrade), not back, or you don't want a rolling release.

Suggestion: read point 1. at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way
and look at nixos again.
 
Old 11-21-2011, 06:58 PM
Pierre Schmitz
 
Default pacman new generation

Am 21.11.2011 20:43, schrieb Bernardo Barros:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Thorsten Tpper
> <atsutane@freethoughts.de> wrote:
>> Seriously, it's probably meant like this but your mail reads like a
>> "Hey why don't you learn $INSERT_LANG_HERE and rewrite your whole
>> system."
>>
>
> Hello Thorsten, no, you got it wrong.
>
> It's about ideas not languages. I think it makes sense in a rolling
> release OS like Arch.
>
> Ideas like for example
>
> pacman --rollback
>
> Would be possible then

We have an old bug reprot about this. See my comment at
https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/8585#comment47567

With btrfs this might be possible to implement in a clean and sane way.
And as I said back then: This feature does not really belong in a
package manager; even though ti could trigger snapshot creation etc.

--
Pierre Schmitz, http://pierre-schmitz.com
 
Old 11-21-2011, 07:02 PM
Karol Blazewicz
 
Default pacman new generation

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 8:58 PM, Pierre Schmitz <pierre@archlinux.de> wrote:
> Am 21.11.2011 20:43, schrieb Bernardo Barros:
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Thorsten Tpper
>> <atsutane@freethoughts.de> wrote:
>>> Seriously, it's probably meant like this but your mail reads like a
>>> "Hey why don't you learn $INSERT_LANG_HERE and rewrite your whole
>>> system."
>>>
>>
>> Hello Thorsten, no, you got it wrong.
>>
>> It's about ideas not languages. I think it makes sense in a rolling
>> release OS like Arch.
>>
>> Ideas like for example
>>
>> * * pacman --rollback
>>
>> Would be possible then
>
> We have an old bug reprot about this. See my comment at
> https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/8585#comment47567
>
> With btrfs this might be possible to implement in a clean and sane way.
> And as I said back then: This feature does not really belong in a
> package manager; even though ti could trigger snapshot creation etc.
>
> --
> Pierre Schmitz, http://pierre-schmitz.com
>

+1
I prefer a general method of rolling back changes, not a package-focused one.

I think you can use ARM and 'pacman -Suu' e.g.
http://arm.konnichi.com/2011/11/20/
 
Old 11-21-2011, 07:07 PM
Leonid Isaev
 
Default pacman new generation

On (11/21/11 11:43), Bernardo Barros wrote:
-~> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Thorsten Tpper
-~> <atsutane@freethoughts.de> wrote:
-~> > Seriously, it's probably meant like this but your mail reads like a
-~> > "Hey why don't you learn $INSERT_LANG_HERE and rewrite your whole
-~> > system."
-~> >
-~>
-~> Hello Thorsten, no, you got it wrong.
-~>
-~> It's about ideas not languages. I think it makes sense in a rolling
-~> release OS like Arch.
-~>
-~> Ideas like for example
-~>
-~> pacman --rollback
-~>
-~> Would be possible then

And the idea would be... dpkg-reconfigure -- reinventing the wheel is fun
Seriously though, your title is completely misleading.

--
Leonid Isaev
GnuPG key ID: 164B5A6D
Key fingerprint: C0DF 20D0 C075 C3F1 E1BE 775A A7AE F6CB 164B 5A6D
 
Old 11-21-2011, 07:17 PM
Bernardo Barros
 
Default pacman new generation

dpkg-reconfigure ? No.. it's not that at all.

In fact pacman already have some of those ideas,
it tries to be safe when it keeps old package in /var/cache/pacman/pkg,
but Nix goes further and tries to make sense of all those changes in the system.

I just see some other ideas that could be inspiring futures versions
of pacman, that all:

http://www.st.ewi.tudelft.nl/~dolstra/pubs/eupfcdm-cbse2005-final.pdf
 
Old 11-21-2011, 07:58 PM
"Jeffrey Lynn Parke Jr."
 
Default pacman new generation

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Bernardo Barros
<bernardobarros2@gmail.com>wrote:

> Perhaps the developers want to take a look at this distribution.It is
> reported that is written in a `purely functional package management'
> and tries to be a highly safe OS, where `upgrading a system is as
> reliable as reinstalling from scratch'.
>
> http://nixos.org/nixos/
>
> > Because the files of a new configuration don’t overwrite old ones, you
> > can (atomically) roll back to a previous configuration. For instance,
> > if after a nixos-rebuild switch you discover that you don’t like the
> > new configuration, you can just go back
>
> It can be an inspiration for a new version of pacman rewritten in
> haskell? Also Don Stewart's talk about 'Scripting with Types' might
> inspire someone too (BTW since he started arch-haskell I think he is a
> Arch user):
>
> http://donsbot.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/semicolon.pdf
>

Here's my 2 cents. If you want nixos, just use nixos.

--
"Breathe Deeply and Dream"
 

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