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Old 09-19-2010, 05:39 PM
Nathan Wayde
 
Default 'Local mirror' page was removed from wiki

On 18/09/10 19:17, Stefan Erik Wilkens wrote:

[...]

Guus,

I checked the current mirrorlist before replying, correct me if I'm
wrong but I can't find any entry relating to the domain Nathan
included in his mailing, nor is he listed as a tier1 on the
developer's wiki. Maybe I've missed something painfully obvious here?

-Stefan




it's not *official* , when the new mirror scheme went into action I
asked about it because from the docs it appeared that I needed to be an
official mirror ad thus permission to sync from the Tier-1s, but I was
told that that wasn't the case. I didn't and don't want to run an
official mirror in the sense that the mirror appears in the mirrorlist
but I run the mirror[1] for what I consider to be a useful purpose and
until someone pisses me off or it becomes useless I will continue to run
it. It doesn't serve any other mirrors and users aren't expected to use
it as their daily mirror which is the reason I don't want it in any
mirrorlist.


[1] the mirror is at arm.konnichi.com, it primary idea is that it can be
used to do a blanketed and hopefully seamless downgrade of all packages
with `pacman -Suu` or downgrade to any single package.
http://arm.konnichi.com/2010/09/19/ provides a mirror that behaves like
any other mirror of the official repos except the packages are those
synced on September 19th 2010. likewise
http://arm.konnichi.com/2009/12/03/ is a mirror with files from December
3rd 2009.


ARM syncs once per day so it can't cause much problems and as stated
previously the daily average bandwidth is so low that if you're running
a mirror then it's almost insignificant unless you have everyone syncing
from you which is almost certainly not the case with the Tier-1s.
Yesterday or Friday's sync took about 900MiB most of which was from
sauerbraten, over 400MiB and some larger packages, today IIRC was less
than 10 MiB.
 
Old 09-19-2010, 06:02 PM
Nathan Wayde
 
Default 'Local mirror' page was removed from wiki

On 19/09/10 17:26, Matthew Gyurgyik wrote:

[...]
As I posted on the forum... How hard is it to run rsync and look at the
man page for rsync? rsync is the *only* command that is needed to create
a local mirror.

We want to discourage this behavior as much as possible and it is really
quite trivial to setup a mirror.

Setup a local mirror
1. rsync to local dir (look at the developer's wiki for mirrors and the
proper rysnc arguments)
2. Set up webserver to serve local dir (if on a lan)
3. Set local mirror url in mirrorlist
4. Alternatively use Server = file:///mnt/media/mirror/$repo/os/x86_64
in pacman.conf or mirrorlist

That is all that has to be done.

If one is going to be creating a local mirror, he/she should really have
this basic knowledge.



This elitist attitude is what pisses me off most about the Arch
community but I must admit that you sir just took it to the next level.
I'll answer your question anyway. It's pretty easy to create a local
mirror. But in your haste to show off your holyness you forgot that the
issue isn't about creating a mirror, it's about doing it properly
without causing issues for upstream. Your idea about throwing an rsync
command at is does things like sync the entire mirror(as-is recommended
in the NewMirrors wiki) which I'm sure isn't what you actually want if
you're going to create a local mirror and this will undoubtedly just
waste bandwidth for the mirror, after-all, if it's the packages you want
then why would you go and sync the ISOs or even the sources?


Now, I've stated my personal use-case and I' sure other have similar and
other use-cases for having a local mirror, so I guess you have no
argument against it other than it's something else that isn't useful to
you so should be available to anyone else...


Now, If you think it's a good idea to keep trolling as opposed to go and
read what the actual issues are then please continue you are free to do so.
 
Old 09-19-2010, 06:31 PM
Fess
 
Default 'Local mirror' page was removed from wiki

On 12:26 Sun 19 Sep , Matthew Gyurgyik wrote:
> On 09/19/2010 11:45 AM, Steve Holmes wrote:
>> On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 10:46:13PM -0400, Matthew Gyurgyik wrote:
>>> There is nothing preventing you from creating a local mirror. If you
>>> can't figure out how to create a local mirror using the resource
>>> available, you probably shouldn't be using arch.
>> Now, there's a supportive answer if I ever heard one. That's the way
>> to get more people interested in using arch.
>>
>> Most distros like to build up their presence and increase the numbers
>> and usage. Obviously if everyone goes out there and attempts to build
>> local mirrors and all, that would put a big drain on the arch package
>> update process. I don't think many people are doubting that and maybe
>> it should be discouraged however. But the withholding of technical
>> knowledge with such arrogance is in poor taste if you ask me. Like
>> others have been saying all along now, the original information was
>> pulled and no technical explanation was ever offered for why it was
>> wrong.
>>
>> Now because of all this "secrecy" (in appearance), I've increased my
>> curiosity and may look into building a local mirror just so I know how
>> to do it. Had the thing on the wiki site been corrected, I would have
>> probably just read it and kept it in the back of my mind for a day
>> when I would really need to do it.
> As I posted on the forum... How hard is it to run rsync and look at the
> man page for rsync? rsync is the *only* command that is needed to create
> a local mirror.
>
> We want to discourage this behavior as much as possible and it is really
> quite trivial to setup a mirror.
>
> Setup a local mirror
> 1. rsync to local dir (look at the developer's wiki for mirrors and the
> proper rysnc arguments)
> 2. Set up webserver to serve local dir (if on a lan)
> 3. Set local mirror url in mirrorlist
> 4. Alternatively use Server = file:///mnt/media/mirror/$repo/os/x86_64
> in pacman.conf or mirrorlist
>
> That is all that has to be done.
>
> If one is going to be creating a local mirror, he/she should really have
> this basic knowledge.


One problem... how many servers with ENABLED rsync do you know?
Where is list of them?
Example? Of course. You cannot sync from archlinux.org.
--
 
Old 09-19-2010, 06:47 PM
Fess
 
Default 'Local mirror' page was removed from wiki

On 22:31 Sun 19 Sep , Fess wrote:
> On 12:26 Sun 19 Sep , Matthew Gyurgyik wrote:
> > On 09/19/2010 11:45 AM, Steve Holmes wrote:
> >> On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 10:46:13PM -0400, Matthew Gyurgyik wrote:
> >>> There is nothing preventing you from creating a local mirror. If you
> >>> can't figure out how to create a local mirror using the resource
> >>> available, you probably shouldn't be using arch.
> >> Now, there's a supportive answer if I ever heard one. That's the way
> >> to get more people interested in using arch.
> >>
> >> Most distros like to build up their presence and increase the numbers
> >> and usage. Obviously if everyone goes out there and attempts to build
> >> local mirrors and all, that would put a big drain on the arch package
> >> update process. I don't think many people are doubting that and maybe
> >> it should be discouraged however. But the withholding of technical
> >> knowledge with such arrogance is in poor taste if you ask me. Like
> >> others have been saying all along now, the original information was
> >> pulled and no technical explanation was ever offered for why it was
> >> wrong.
> >>
> >> Now because of all this "secrecy" (in appearance), I've increased my
> >> curiosity and may look into building a local mirror just so I know how
> >> to do it. Had the thing on the wiki site been corrected, I would have
> >> probably just read it and kept it in the back of my mind for a day
> >> when I would really need to do it.
> > As I posted on the forum... How hard is it to run rsync and look at the
> > man page for rsync? rsync is the *only* command that is needed to create
> > a local mirror.
> >
> > We want to discourage this behavior as much as possible and it is really
> > quite trivial to setup a mirror.
> >
> > Setup a local mirror
> > 1. rsync to local dir (look at the developer's wiki for mirrors and the
> > proper rysnc arguments)
> > 2. Set up webserver to serve local dir (if on a lan)
> > 3. Set local mirror url in mirrorlist
> > 4. Alternatively use Server = file:///mnt/media/mirror/$repo/os/x86_64
> > in pacman.conf or mirrorlist
> >
> > That is all that has to be done.
> >
> > If one is going to be creating a local mirror, he/she should really have
> > this basic knowledge.
>
>
> One problem... how many servers with ENABLED rsync do you know?
> Where is list of them?
> Example? Of course. You cannot sync from archlinux.org.
> --

Sorry, replying wrong post =)
--
 
Old 09-19-2010, 07:22 PM
Matthew Gyurgyik
 
Default 'Local mirror' page was removed from wiki

On 09/19/2010 02:02 PM, Nathan Wayde wrote:

On 19/09/10 17:26, Matthew Gyurgyik wrote:

[...]
As I posted on the forum... How hard is it to run rsync and look at the
man page for rsync? rsync is the *only* command that is needed to create
a local mirror.

We want to discourage this behavior as much as possible and it is really
quite trivial to setup a mirror.

Setup a local mirror
1. rsync to local dir (look at the developer's wiki for mirrors and the
proper rysnc arguments)
2. Set up webserver to serve local dir (if on a lan)
3. Set local mirror url in mirrorlist
4. Alternatively use Server = file:///mnt/media/mirror/$repo/os/x86_64
in pacman.conf or mirrorlist

That is all that has to be done.

If one is going to be creating a local mirror, he/she should really have
this basic knowledge.



This elitist attitude is what pisses me off most about the Arch
community but I must admit that you sir just took it to the next level.
I'll answer your question anyway. It's pretty easy to create a local
mirror. But in your haste to show off your holyness you forgot that
the issue isn't about creating a mirror, it's about doing it properly
without causing issues for upstream. Your idea about throwing an rsync
command at is does things like sync the entire mirror(as-is
recommended in the NewMirrors wiki) which I'm sure isn't what you
actually want if you're going to create a local mirror and this will
undoubtedly just waste bandwidth for the mirror, after-all, if it's
the packages you want then why would you go and sync the ISOs or even
the sources?


Now, I've stated my personal use-case and I' sure other have similar
and other use-cases for having a local mirror, so I guess you have no
argument against it other than it's something else that isn't useful
to you so should be available to anyone else...


Now, If you think it's a good idea to keep trolling as opposed to go
and read what the actual issues are then please continue you are free
to do so.


You can use the --exclude-from=/path/to/excludefile.txt rsync argument -
it exclude directories that you don't need.


I have updated the wiki to include some basic information on setting up
a local mirror. I believe it provides enough information to help someone
set up local mirror while still holding them accountable for a certain
amount of knowledge.


Please take a look at it and improve it where you see fit. Since I have
no need for a local mirror I might be over looking something.


http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Local_Mirror

If you don't like the attitude don't use arch. Arch isn't here to
babysit you and hold your hand. This is truly what sets arch apart. The
users who have been here for 4-5+ years know exactly what I'm talking
about. However, I digress as this isn't the time or place to discuss this.
 
Old 09-19-2010, 10:17 PM
Steve Holmes
 
Default 'Local mirror' page was removed from wiki

On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 03:22:27PM -0400, Matthew Gyurgyik wrote:
> If you don't like the attitude don't use arch. Arch isn't here to
> babysit you and hold your hand. This is truly what sets arch apart.
> The users who have been here for 4-5+ years know exactly what I'm
> talking about.

Not quite true! What sets Arch appart is the aspect of technical
simplicity but yet powerful. I have to say what turned me on to Arch
also what I found to be good write-ups on the Arch wiki on how to set
up certain items for which I wasn't quite sure how to do. After all,
we all started out as beginners at some point. Sure, Arch isn't a
turn-key system like some others are but at the same time what stands
out a good true community is when people help out and answer questions
and head people in the right direction to RTFM most efficiently. The
arogance demonstrated with the beginning line of this quoted message
is an ice cold way to turn people away from a good powerful distro the
first time they run into snags.

I don't like the demonstrated attitude but I sure as hell am not gonna
leave Arch. The arch way is better than that.
 
Old 09-19-2010, 10:38 PM
Ng Oon-Ee
 
Default 'Local mirror' page was removed from wiki

On Sun, 2010-09-19 at 15:17 -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 03:22:27PM -0400, Matthew Gyurgyik wrote:
> > If you don't like the attitude don't use arch. Arch isn't here to
> > babysit you and hold your hand. This is truly what sets arch apart.
> > The users who have been here for 4-5+ years know exactly what I'm
> > talking about.
>
> Not quite true! What sets Arch appart is the aspect of technical
> simplicity but yet powerful. I have to say what turned me on to Arch
> also what I found to be good write-ups on the Arch wiki on how to set
> up certain items for which I wasn't quite sure how to do. After all,
> we all started out as beginners at some point. Sure, Arch isn't a
> turn-key system like some others are but at the same time what stands
> out a good true community is when people help out and answer questions
> and head people in the right direction to RTFM most efficiently. The
> arogance demonstrated with the beginning line of this quoted message
> is an ice cold way to turn people away from a good powerful distro the
> first time they run into snags.
>
> I don't like the demonstrated attitude but I sure as hell am not gonna
> leave Arch. The arch way is better than that.

Let's not turn this into a big debate over what the 'Arch Way' means. In
the end its decided by the devs, ie. the ones actually doing the work,
and all the rest of the noise is just trolling.

Matthew posted up a wiki link, discussing the technical merits or
otherwise of that is useful. Another bundle of hot air over "arrogance"
and "hand-holding" just wastes the time of everyone else reading this
list.
 
Old 09-20-2010, 12:02 AM
 
Default 'Local mirror' page was removed from wiki

On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 03:22:27PM -0400, Matthew Gyurgyik wrote:

> I have updated the wiki to include some basic information on setting
> up a local mirror. I believe it provides enough information to help
> someone set up local mirror while still holding them accountable for
> a certain amount of knowledge.
>
> Please take a look at it and improve it where you see fit. Since I
> have no need for a local mirror I might be over looking something.
>
> http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Local_Mirror

Thanks.

I know how to use rsync, set up a server (not even needed in
my case) etc. The interesting info is what should be excluded.

It may be a good idea to provide a full repo / top level directory
list for a tier-1 mirror (or a link to it if already available on
the wiki) so users can create a complete --exclude-from list from
the start instead of incrementally adding to it when they discover
they are downloading things they don't need. I know you can use
rsync to get such a listing, but still.

Ciao,

--
FA

There are three of them, and Alleline.
 
Old 09-21-2010, 12:31 AM
Matthew Gyurgyik
 
Default 'Local mirror' page was removed from wiki

On 09/19/2010 08:02 PM, fons@kokkinizita.net wrote:

On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 03:22:27PM -0400, Matthew Gyurgyik wrote:


I have updated the wiki to include some basic information on setting
up a local mirror. I believe it provides enough information to help
someone set up local mirror while still holding them accountable for
a certain amount of knowledge.

Please take a look at it and improve it where you see fit. Since I
have no need for a local mirror I might be over looking something.

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Local_Mirror

Thanks.

I know how to use rsync, set up a server (not even needed in
my case) etc. The interesting info is what should be excluded.

It may be a good idea to provide a full repo / top level directory
list for a tier-1 mirror (or a link to it if already available on
the wiki) so users can create a complete --exclude-from list from
the start instead of incrementally adding to it when they discover
they are downloading things they don't need. I know you can use
rsync to get such a listing, but still.

Ciao,

I added this pointer: Take look at the top level directory of the mirror
that you choose and *make sure* to exclude anything you do no not need


The example for /path/to/exclude.txt includes uncommon/unneeded top
level dirs (iso, staging, kde/gnome-unstable, etc...)
 

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