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Old 03-17-2010, 06:17 PM
Isaac Dupree
 
Default Ignoring packages and piecemeal updates

On 03/17/10 14:42, Denis Kobozev wrote:

Hi archers,

It has been repeated a lot of times that doing piecemeal updates with
pacman -Sy pkgname is not a very good idea. What about ignoring
packages? Is it as dangerous?


the most likely danger with small version skews is if a library is
upgraded, and a program depends on that library, and the library's new
version is not binary-compatible with the library's old version.



And a more general question: is it even theoretically possible to have
a bleeding edge distro with piecemeal updates and with no required
manual intervention during updates or is it just a pipe dream?


Gentoo does some, (use revdep-rebuild. hope it works.).* NixOS does
better (at least at the theoretical stuff, though it has fewer users..it
was born in academia..Basically it is archtected so that you can have
multiple versions of any package installed and they inherently won't
conflict with each other.).


*side-note: gentoo doesn't have bleeding-edge packages as often as it
used to.


but none are perfect. Large version skews tend to make everything
somewhat incompatible at runtime.


-Isaac
 
Old 03-17-2010, 06:19 PM
Xavier Chantry
 
Default Ignoring packages and piecemeal updates

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Denis Kobozev <d.v.kobozev@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi archers,
>
> It has been repeated a lot of times that doing piecemeal updates with
> pacman -Sy pkgname is not a very good idea. What about ignoring
> packages? Is it as dangerous?
>
> And a more general question: is it even theoretically possible to have
> a bleeding edge distro with piecemeal updates and with no required
> manual intervention during updates or is it just a pipe dream?
>

Just a pipe dream.
 
Old 03-17-2010, 07:02 PM
Aaron Griffin
 
Default Ignoring packages and piecemeal updates

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Xavier Chantry
<chantry.xavier@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Denis Kobozev <d.v.kobozev@gmail.com> wrote:
>> And a more general question: is it even theoretically possible to have
>> a bleeding edge distro with piecemeal updates and with no required
>> manual intervention during updates or is it just a pipe dream?
>
> Just a pipe dream.

I would actually say that it is possible with some rejiggering of
pacman. Will Arch ever do it? No way - it's way too much added
complexity that a human can deal with in much less time
 
Old 03-17-2010, 07:29 PM
Denis Kobozev
 
Default Ignoring packages and piecemeal updates

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Isaac Dupree
<ml@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
> NixOS does better
> (at least at the theoretical stuff, though it has fewer users..it was born
> in academia..Basically it is archtected so that you can have multiple
> versions of any package installed and they inherently won't conflict with
> each other.).

Interesting. Judging from a quick glance at the NixOS homepage, nix
deals with shared dependencies by having very precise rules about
which package requires which versions of shared libraries. So when a
new version of libfoo comes out, all packages that depend on libfoo
should be rebuilt. If package maintainers are lazy, you would end up
with a system where each package has its own version of libfoo...

Best,
Denis.
 
Old 03-17-2010, 07:48 PM
Aaron Griffin
 
Default Ignoring packages and piecemeal updates

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Denis Kobozev <d.v.kobozev@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Isaac Dupree
> <ml@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
>> NixOS does better
>> (at least at the theoretical stuff, though it has fewer users..it was born
>> in academia..Basically it is archtected so that you can have multiple
>> versions of any package installed and they inherently won't conflict with
>> each other.).
>
> Interesting. Judging from a quick glance at the NixOS homepage, nix
> deals with shared dependencies by having very precise rules about
> which package requires which versions of shared libraries. So when a
> new version of libfoo comes out, all packages that depend on libfoo
> should be rebuilt. If package maintainers are lazy, you would end up
> with a system where each package has its own version of libfoo...

GoboLinux does something similar in that packages are installed to
some place in a directory named packagename-version/ and then things
are symlinked in.
 
Old 03-17-2010, 07:55 PM
Denis Kobozev
 
Default Ignoring packages and piecemeal updates

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Aaron Griffin <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Denis Kobozev <d.v.kobozev@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Interesting. Judging from a quick glance at the NixOS homepage, nix
>> deals with shared dependencies by having very precise rules about
>> which package requires which versions of shared libraries. So when a
>> new version of libfoo comes out, all packages that depend on libfoo
>> should be rebuilt. If package maintainers are lazy, you would end up
>> with a system where each package has its own version of libfoo...
>
> GoboLinux does something similar in that packages are installed to
> some place in a directory named packagename-version/ and then things
> are symlinked in.

And how does that work out in practice? Not that good, otherwise Arch
would do it too?

Best,
Denis.
 

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