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David Rosenstrauch 03-10-2010 03:43 AM

Howto handle poppler conflict with poppler-qt3
 
On 03/09/2010 10:48 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:

Thanks Allan, Dave, Isaac& Ty

I'll pester the guys at kdemod. I keep pushing for KDE to embrace the concept
of "KDE Classic". We see how smart the Coke board was when it tried to replace
Coke with "New Coke". In less than two weeks the board bowed to consumer demand
and rather than loosing market share, brought back Coke as Coke Classic. If KDE
had any brains it would do the same thing.


Don't hold your breath! :-)

I used to be a huge KDE fan-boy, but honestly I've just completely given
up on KDE at this point. IMO it went from being the most rock-solid,
feature-filled Unix desktop system to a bug-ridden mess that lacked a
huge chunk of features that I rely heavily on. The KDE devs traded
stability and functionality for eye candy - a poor trade in my book -
and yet seem very satisfied with the results. Whatever.


But IMO they made one of the biggest (and oldest) mistakes in the
software dev book: they did "The Big Rewrite". (See:
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html)


Don't get me wrong, I was a bit sad to give up on KDE. (And went
through a good bit of pain and irritation for a few days while I tried
to suss out which desktop to switch to.) But I've got work to get done,
and I need a stable system in order to do it. And one of the beauties
of open source is that there's nearly always other options that get the
job done about as good (if not better). (Xfce, in this case.)


DR

"David C. Rankin" 03-10-2010 04:11 AM

Howto handle poppler conflict with poppler-qt3
 
On 03/09/2010 10:43 PM, David Rosenstrauch wrote:

> Don't get me wrong, I was a bit sad to give up on KDE. (And went
> through a good bit of pain and irritation for a few days while I tried
> to suss out which desktop to switch to.) But I've got work to get done,
> and I need a stable system in order to do it. And one of the beauties
> of open source is that there's nearly always other options that get the
> job done about as good (if not better). (Xfce, in this case.)
>
> DR
>

There has been a really good upside to the kde4 fiasco. I never would have
learned about all the really good desktop choices out there. Doing the same they
you did - figuring out which desktop I was going to move to, I have learned to
be proficient in:

blackbox
enlightenment (DR16) - "Hey, was that your release?"
enlightenment (E17)
fluxbox
fvwm2
gnome
icewm
openbox
pekwm
sawfish
twm (not much bling, but it works over slow connections)
windowmaker & wmii
xfce

That was a fantastic bit of opensource learning and a kick in the pants to see
how they are so similar and so different at the same time.

I concur whole heartedly with your summation of kde4's status and the reasoning
behind the assessment. Basically, they broke the old axioms of "throwing the
baby out with the bath water..." and "fixing something that wasn't broken..."
Things would have turned out so much differently if they just would have built
upon the solid foundation of kde3 and incrementally added the eye-candy. But in
reality, I think what happened was, they simply bit off more than they could
chew and the size of the bite they had taken didn't become apparent until it was
much too late.

The irony is, they could still pick up the kde3 code base, move forward with the
incremental addition of the eye-candy and still finish that project with a rock
solid desktop -- 2 years before kde4 will ever come to fruition...


--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
Rankin Law Firm, PLLC
510 Ochiltree Street
Nacogdoches, Texas 75961
Telephone: (936) 715-9333
Facsimile: (936) 715-9339
www.rankinlawfirm.com

David Rosenstrauch 03-10-2010 05:39 AM

Howto handle poppler conflict with poppler-qt3
 
On 03/10/2010 12:11 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

There has been a really good upside to the kde4 fiasco. I never would have
learned about all the really good desktop choices out there.


That is a useful side effect! Anything that makes you learn something
can't be a bad thing! :-)



Things would have turned out so much differently if they just would have built
upon the solid foundation of kde3 and incrementally added the eye-candy. But in
reality, I think what happened was, they simply bit off more than they could
chew and the size of the bite they had taken didn't become apparent until it was
much too late.


My guess as to what happened (and yes, it is a total W.A.G., based on no
hard info) is that the devs got "bored" doing KDE3, and were much more
interested in doing the "fun" work of working on a desktop that had a
cool, new usability paradigm.


Were they a for-profit company, they'd likely have pretty majorly
screwed themselves by doing this, since they would have been writing
software for themselves, instead of for their paying customers. But as
an open source project, they obviously have a lot more freedom to
indulge those desires.


That said, I don't personally share that view. Even when I work on open
source software, I still feel an obligation to "satisfy the customer"
(i.e., the user). But there's certainly a sizable enough precedent of
open source projects that were started solely to satisfy the founder's
itch, that this isn't such a huge anomaly.


Still, the risk that a founder takes when doing that is that they may
wind up working on a project that nobody (or at least only a handful of
people) is using. It remains to be seen whether that'll be the case
with KDE4 going forward.



The irony is, they could still pick up the kde3 code base, move forward with the
incremental addition of the eye-candy and still finish that project with a rock
solid desktop -- 2 years before kde4 will ever come to fruition...


I suspect you're probably right. The amount of time it would take to
add KDE4 functionality into KDE3 is almost certainly several years less
than it would take to do the reverse.


Best,

DR

Laurie Clark-Michalek 03-10-2010 04:34 PM

Howto handle poppler conflict with poppler-qt3
 
On 10 March 2010 03:48, David C. Rankin <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/09/2010 05:02 PM, Allan McRae wrote:
>> On 10/03/10 08:58, David C. Rankin wrote:
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> * * Latest updates to poppler require the removal of poppler-qt3 which
>>> fails due to
>>> kdemod3-kdegraphics-pdf (kpdf) dependencies. How do we handle this? Do
>>> we just
>>> remove poppler-qt3? Won't that break kpdf? Thought I would check before I
>>> started breaking things on my own :p
>>>
>>> * * The actual error is:
>>>
>>> :: poppler conflicts with poppler-qt3. Remove poppler-qt3? [Y/n]
>>> error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies)
>>> :: kdemod3-kdegraphics-kpdf: requires poppler-qt3>=0.6
>>
>> The correct way to handle it is to ask kdemod to either provide a
>> poppler-qt3 package or fix their deps on the kdemod3-kdegraphics-kpdf
>> package.
>>
>> Allan
>>
>>
>
> Thanks Allan, Dave, Isaac & Ty
>
> * * * *I'll pester the guys at kdemod. I keep pushing for KDE to embrace the concept
> of "KDE Classic".
You use arch, yet you want legacy softwere?
> We see how smart the Coke board was when it tried to replace
> Coke with "New Coke".
Yes, but Coke have to sell their product. KDE don't. KDE renamed
because they felt they were not a project anymore, they were a
community of developers. If others don't like it, they can fork. And
thus we have kdemod. And if you don't like kdemod for some reason, you
could always fork again. And again. And again. However at a certain
point, the naming convention would probably implode... (somewhere
around kdemodmodmod I think). The KDE developers are developing it for
themselves. Remember the first rule of missing features. Open Source
!= Democracy
> In less than two weeks the board bowed to consumer demand
> and rather than loosing market share, brought back Coke as Coke Classic. If KDE
> had any brains it would do the same thing.
Don't insult them. Disagreeing with you doesn't make them mentally
deficient. Why would they throw away 2 years of work, and however many
years of work?
> Like it or not k4 is still in beta
> stage with little direction and little guidance in what it will ultimately look
> like or how it will behave.
Like it or not, this claim is still thrown around... How best to
explain it? A look at each KDE release:
KDE 4.0 - Though labeled as a stable release, it was meant for early
adopters. This is probably where the 'KDE4 is still beta!!' saying
comes from, as truly, 4.0 was not totally stable.
KDE 4.1 - Nothing much, basically the same as KDE 4.0 but with more features.
KDE 4.2 - Considered a stable release, and a replacement for KDE 3.5
for most users. Several thousand bugs fixed. Generally, people become
more satisfied.
KDE 4.3 - Incremental release. Focused on polishing interface. So yes,
the dreaded... 'bling'
KDE 4.4 - Based on QT4.6, so moderate performance increases deriving
from that. Added features such as tabbed window management
> * * * *I have been using KDE4 for about 1 years now since the kde4.3 beta phase and I
> like the desktop, but it is still very difficult to get things done on it. If I
> need to work, I use kde3 or flux or enlightenment. If I want to write bug
> reports endlessly or check the latest bling, I'll use kde4.
Much as your phrasing has the satisfaction of a well cooked meal, it
lacks any sauce. You must tell us, how do you manage to get KDE 4.4 to
crash so often? I've done all my work for the past 2 years in KDE 4.*,
and I'm not too cRaZy...
Yes, back with 4.0, plasma did crash on me a fair bit, and I did have
some trouble with KWrite a couple of months back. I guess I could have
stopped using KDE because of it - I don't think I ever touched KDE 4.1
- but it's not worth it. It's certainly not worth spending the time
complaining about it...
> * * * *But there is still no Quanta, etc.. in kde4 and simple things like trying to
> have konqueror "back up" and remember what file it was on in the parent
> directory just annoy the Sh17 out of me...
Good for you :) I'm satisfied with my KDE 4.4, and though I realise
not everyone can be, I shan't be loosing too much sleep over it :)

FUD and Unsubstantiated claims however... Well they're a worry :)
>
> --
> David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
> Rankin Law Firm, PLLC
> 510 Ochiltree Street
> Nacogdoches, Texas 75961
> Telephone: (936) 715-9333
> Facsimile: (936) 715-9339
> www.rankinlawfirm.com
>

Thanks,

Laurie

Daenyth Blank 03-10-2010 04:37 PM

Howto handle poppler conflict with poppler-qt3
 
On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 12:34, Laurie Clark-Michalek
<bluepeppers@archlinux.us> wrote:
> Good for you :) I'm satisfied with my KDE 4.4, and though I realise
> not everyone can be, I shan't be loosing too much sleep over it :)
>
> FUD and Unsubstantiated claims however... Well they're a worry :)

I really have to agree here. The older 4.x releases were not as
well-done, but I use kde 4.4 on my work laptop and it's fantastic.

Snarkout 03-10-2010 04:49 PM

Howto handle poppler conflict with poppler-qt3
 
On 03/10/2010 10:37 AM, Daenyth Blank wrote:

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 12:34, Laurie Clark-Michalek
<bluepeppers@archlinux.us> wrote:


Good for you :) I'm satisfied with my KDE 4.4, and though I realise
not everyone can be, I shan't be loosing too much sleep over it :)

FUD and Unsubstantiated claims however... Well they're a worry :)


I really have to agree here. The older 4.x releases were not as
well-done, but I use kde 4.4 on my work laptop and it's fantastic.



The kde3 vs kde4 arguments are similar to the Mac OS9 versus Mac OSX
ones of yesteryear. Basically, you could go through old Mac mailing
lists with sed and read the exact same discussions.


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