On 04/14/2011 01:33 PM, Thomas Bächler wrote:

Am 14.04.2011 11:38, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:

On 04/14/2011 12:32 PM, Thomas Bächler wrote:

Am 14.04.2011 11:21, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:

nouveau is not picked automatically.


What do you mean by that?



without a config file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ in which is specified the
driver, xorg-server won't pick it, because is not in the xorg-server
drivers list[1].

https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/23319


That problem could be easily solved in our nouveau package, just look at
the nvidia-utils package. I don't understand why this isn't done.



sure but Jan didn't want it. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/19879

i have 30-nouveau.conf and i can switch easily between nvidia and nouveau


--
IonuÈ›

Am 14.04.2011 12:54, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:
>> That problem could be easily solved in our nouveau package, just look at
>> the nvidia-utils package. I don't understand why this isn't done.
>>
>
> sure but Jan didn't want it. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/19879
>
> i have 30-nouveau.conf and i can switch easily between nvidia and nouveau

His closing comments in the bug report are wrong, I think. I need to
try, but if I understand this right, you can still install nouveau (with
this file) and X will fall back to other drivers if nouveau fails.

On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 14:02 +0200, Thomas Bächler wrote:
> Am 14.04.2011 12:54, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:
> >> That problem could be easily solved in our nouveau package, just look at
> >> the nvidia-utils package. I don't understand why this isn't done.
> >>
> >
> > sure but Jan didn't want it. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/19879
> >
> > i have 30-nouveau.conf and i can switch easily between nvidia and nouveau
>
> His closing comments in the bug report are wrong, I think. I need to
> try, but if I understand this right, you can still install nouveau (with
> this file) and X will fall back to other drivers if nouveau fails.

No, once you configure a driver, it will be taken. If it fails, it will
just throw an error. The 20-nvidia.conf file in nvidia-utils also forces
the nvidia driver for all devices.
I tried this with 1.9.x with a thinclient setup to pass the ShadowFB
option to the intel driver. The Intel machines worked, the ATI machines
didn't start X because the intel driver didn't work.

Am 14.04.2011 15:06, schrieb Jan de Groot:
>> His closing comments in the bug report are wrong, I think. I need to
>> try, but if I understand this right, you can still install nouveau (with
>> this file) and X will fall back to other drivers if nouveau fails.
>
> No, once you configure a driver, it will be taken. If it fails, it will
> just throw an error. The 20-nvidia.conf file in nvidia-utils also forces
> the nvidia driver for all devices.
> I tried this with 1.9.x with a thinclient setup to pass the ShadowFB
> option to the intel driver. The Intel machines worked, the ATI machines
> didn't start X because the intel driver didn't work.

This situation is really crappy:
1) The list of default drivers to try is hardcoded into Xorg, not
configurable.
2) Instead of trying multiple available device configuration sections,
Xorg will take the first one available and fail if that doesn't work.

So, if a new driver is added, it won't be supported out of the box in a
clean way. IMO, this justifies patching the list inside the xorg-server
package, adding nvidia and nouveau (in that order).

On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 15:32 +0200, Thomas Bächler wrote:
> Am 14.04.2011 15:06, schrieb Jan de Groot:
> >> His closing comments in the bug report are wrong, I think. I need to
> >> try, but if I understand this right, you can still install nouveau (with
> >> this file) and X will fall back to other drivers if nouveau fails.
> >
> > No, once you configure a driver, it will be taken. If it fails, it will
> > just throw an error. The 20-nvidia.conf file in nvidia-utils also forces
> > the nvidia driver for all devices.
> > I tried this with 1.9.x with a thinclient setup to pass the ShadowFB
> > option to the intel driver. The Intel machines worked, the ATI machines
> > didn't start X because the intel driver didn't work.
>
> This situation is really crappy:
> 1) The list of default drivers to try is hardcoded into Xorg, not
> configurable.
> 2) Instead of trying multiple available device configuration sections,
> Xorg will take the first one available and fail if that doesn't work.
>
> So, if a new driver is added, it won't be supported out of the box in a
> clean way. IMO, this justifies patching the list inside the xorg-server
> package, adding nvidia and nouveau (in that order).

The order doesn't matter, as you can't have both nvidia and nouveau
installed at the same time due to -dri conflicts.

BTW: as we have hybrid graphics these days, is that supported by the
Nvidia driver, and if so, shouldn't we think of some other way to
support xf86-video-intel + nvidia-utils on one system?

[2011-04-14 11:42:21 +0200] Gaetan Bisson:
> Title: nvidia-173xx and nvidia-96xx removed from [extra]
>
> The nvidia-173xx and nvidia-96xx driver packages have been removed from
> our repositories as they are incompatible with newer xorg servers. This
> can only be fixed by an upstream update, which has not happened yet.
>
> For most video cards, the best alternative should be xf86-video-nouveau;
> see: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Nouveau
>
> As lower-grade options, you might also consider xf86-video-nv and
> xf86-video-vesa: simply remove the old nvidia driver(s), install these,
> and the xorg server will automatically pick the best at startup.

I'll post this tomorrow if nobody objects.

--
Gaetan

On 2011/4/14 Pierre Schmitz <pierre@archlinux.de> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:54:40 +0100, Pierre Schmitz wrote:
>> Just to let you know: I have removed the nvidia-173xx driver packages
>> from [extra]. They wont work with current xorg-server anyway. Once
>> nvidia releases a new driver these can be readded easily. Keeping a
>> package that cannot work is kind of pointless.
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Pierre
>
> I also had to remove the nvidia-96xx packages we still had. This means
> if you want to use the proprietary driver you'll need at least a Geforce
> 6. There is nothing we can do about this.

Couldn't we at least add a conflicts line with the new xserver for a
while, so that upgrades are blocked for these users until they fix
their system? What is the expected upgrade path?

Rémy.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:50:34 +0200, Jan de Groot wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 15:32 +0200, Thomas Bächler wrote:
>> Am 14.04.2011 15:06, schrieb Jan de Groot:
>> >> His closing comments in the bug report are wrong, I think. I need to
>> >> try, but if I understand this right, you can still install nouveau (with
>> >> this file) and X will fall back to other drivers if nouveau fails.
>> >
>> > No, once you configure a driver, it will be taken. If it fails, it will
>> > just throw an error. The 20-nvidia.conf file in nvidia-utils also forces
>> > the nvidia driver for all devices.
>> > I tried this with 1.9.x with a thinclient setup to pass the ShadowFB
>> > option to the intel driver. The Intel machines worked, the ATI machines
>> > didn't start X because the intel driver didn't work.
>>
>> This situation is really crappy:
>> 1) The list of default drivers to try is hardcoded into Xorg, not
>> configurable.
>> 2) Instead of trying multiple available device configuration sections,
>> Xorg will take the first one available and fail if that doesn't work.
>>
>> So, if a new driver is added, it won't be supported out of the box in a
>> clean way. IMO, this justifies patching the list inside the xorg-server
>> package, adding nvidia and nouveau (in that order).
>
> The order doesn't matter, as you can't have both nvidia and nouveau
> installed at the same time due to -dri conflicts.
>
> BTW: as we have hybrid graphics these days, is that supported by the
> Nvidia driver, and if so, shouldn't we think of some other way to
> support xf86-video-intel + nvidia-utils on one system?

Is this Optimus? Afaik you cannot use these on Linux.

--
Pierre Schmitz, https://users.archlinux.de/~pierre