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Old 11-13-2010, 01:34 PM
Andrea Scarpino
 
Default repository cleanup

On Saturday 13 November 2010 15:23:45 Heiko Baums wrote:
> Nice, then I would need to install 110 packages from AUR and compile
> them manually. When I switched to Arch Linux about 3 years ago it was
> less than 50.
Is a tiny that you do not use any of ours ~8000 packages in official
repositories.

> When will the so called "binary distribution" Arch Linux become a
> second Gentoo, a pure source based distribution, because "no developer
> is interested in maintaining" anything anymore? Btw., PKGBUILDs also in
> AUR need to be maintained.
Yes, by people which use them.

> Also squashfs-utils which is "degraded" to community belongs to [extra]
> because it is necessary for building LiveCDs as far as I know.
Then? You cannot install software which is in [community]?

> And, btw., funny enough was ding updated recently although it was
> orphaned.
Yes, was updated by *ME*. Me, Ionut, Eric, Daniel, Giovanni (etc..) update
orphans packages when we have a bit of time. But we do not use them and we
cannot do many tests, we cannot know if upstread dev added some new feature,
etc.

> I wouldn't say anything if you would cleanup the official repos from
> unnecessary, unimportant and unused or hardly used packages like some
> ttf fonts, GTK1 themes, etc. But there are too many, too important
> packages in your list which definitely belong into the official binary
> repos and which are in the official binary repos of every other binary
> distribution.
I'd like to see your application as TU.

--
Andrea Scarpino
Arch Linux Developer
 
Old 11-13-2010, 01:34 PM
Allan McRae
 
Default repository cleanup

On 14/11/10 00:23, Heiko Baums wrote:


I wouldn't say anything if you would cleanup the official repos from
unnecessary, unimportant and unused or hardly used packages like some
ttf fonts, GTK1 themes, etc. But there are too many, too important
packages in your list which definitely belong into the official binary
repos and which are in the official binary repos of every other binary
distribution.



If no developer wants to maintain them in [extra] and no TU wants to
maintain them in [community], then these packages are not important as
defined bt the people who actually do work around here. And it is the
people who do work that determine what the distro is... So if you want
to change that, step up and become a TU and maintain some packages.


Allan
 
Old 11-13-2010, 02:05 PM
Leonid Isaev
 
Default repository cleanup

On (11/13/10 15:23), Heiko Baums wrote:
-~> Those packages are also quite common and important:
-~>
-~> > eboard
-~> > gdesklets
-~> > lincity
-~> > pure-ftpd
-~> > tcsh
-~> > tin

Let's see...

eboard: The latest version is: 1.1.1 (Feb 22nd, 2008)
gdesklets: gDesklets 0.36.1 released November 5th 2008
lincity: The current stable release of lincity is version 1.12.1
(Aug. 13, 2004)
tin: TIN 1.9.5 (unstable) was released on December 24th, 2009
Looks like a bunch of creeeeepy software.

pure-ftpd: Server -- if you use it, you must know how to build it.
tsch: Well, it's like back to the future, only in reverse, right?

BTW, games under linux just... well... hmmm.

--
lisaev@svibor
 
Old 11-13-2010, 02:18 PM
Loui Chang
 
Default repository cleanup

On Sat 13 Nov 2010 15:23 +0100, Heiko Baums wrote:
> Am Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:46:30 +0100
> schrieb Andrea Scarpino <andrea@archlinux.org>:
>
> > On Thursday 11 November 2010 22:54:36 Roman Kyrylych wrote:
> > > I adopted some (and edited the page).
> > Nice, today we have 291 orphans packages in [extra] (they were 352
> > three days ago). 62 will be moved to [community]. 127 to AUR.
> >
> > I didn't expect this success. I can start moving them today if you
> > agree.
>
> Nice, then I would need to install 110 packages from AUR and compile
> them manually. When I switched to Arch Linux about 3 years ago it was
> less than 50.
>
> When will the so called "binary distribution" Arch Linux become a
> second Gentoo, a pure source based distribution, because "no developer
> is interested in maintaining" anything anymore? Btw., PKGBUILDs also in
> AUR need to be maintained.
>
> Really sad this progress and this massive and pointless cleanup.
>
> You really should reconsider this cleanup. You should consider that
> such a distribution - and Arch Linux isn't a small and unimportant
> distro anymore - is not only about some personal preferences of the
> developers. Developers of such a binary distro should also maintain
> packages which they are not using themselves.

Sorry, Heiko. I don't think you properly understand Arch culture here.
If you want something done you are expected to contribute and put forth
your own effort to make it happen. The TUs and Devs cannot be expected
to be your personal support team and maintain hundreds of packages that
you're particularly interested in unless you're willing to compensate
them for their time. Their time is much more valuable than that.

Just like your time is too valuable to do it yourself.

I'd rather maintainers be forthcoming and allow users to maintain
packages that they can't properly support rather than carrying a burden
that may be harmful or stressful.

> I wouldn't say anything if you would cleanup the official repos from
> unnecessary, unimportant and unused or hardly used packages like some
> ttf fonts, GTK1 themes, etc. But there are too many, too important
> packages in your list which definitely belong into the official binary
> repos and which are in the official binary repos of every other binary
> distribution.

Arch is not just 'another binary distro'. It's a distro for those who
contribute. If other people can benefit from that work - that's great!

Cheers
 
Old 11-13-2010, 03:03 PM
Heiko Baums
 
Default repository cleanup

Am Sat, 13 Nov 2010 15:34:20 +0100
schrieb Andrea Scarpino <andrea@archlinux.org>:

> I'd like to see your application as TU.

There are reasons, why I currently can't. If I could I would do it. I
hope this will change in the near future, but it can take a while.

Heiko
 
Old 11-13-2010, 03:09 PM
Heiko Baums
 
Default repository cleanup

Am Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:05:46 -0500
schrieb Leonid Isaev <lisaev@umail.iu.edu>:

> eboard: The latest version is: 1.1.1 (Feb 22nd, 2008)
> gdesklets: gDesklets 0.36.1 released November 5th 2008
> lincity: The current stable release of lincity is version 1.12.1
> (Aug. 13, 2004)
> tin: TIN 1.9.5 (unstable) was released on December 24th, 2009
> Looks like a bunch of creeeeepy software.
>
> pure-ftpd: Server -- if you use it, you must know how to build it.
> tsch: Well, it's like back to the future, only in reverse, right?
>
> BTW, games under linux just... well... hmmm.

Just because a software is old it doesn't mean that it doesn't work or
isn't used anymore.

Well, I must admit that I don't know tcsh, but that's only one of them.

Like I said, I had no problem with really unimportant or unnecessary
packages or with packages which don't run anymore without being patched.

But packages which still run like eboard and are just a bit older don't
need to be actively maintained. So I don't know the problem with
keeping them in [extra] as orphans.

Heiko
 
Old 11-13-2010, 03:32 PM
Heiko Baums
 
Default repository cleanup

Am Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:18:02 -0500
schrieb Loui Chang <louipc.ist@gmail.com>:

> Sorry, Heiko. I don't think you properly understand Arch culture here.
> If you want something done you are expected to contribute and put
> forth your own effort to make it happen. The TUs and Devs cannot be
> expected to be your personal support team and maintain hundreds of
> packages that you're particularly interested in unless you're willing
> to compensate them for their time. Their time is much more valuable
> than that.

I don't speak about "my personal support team". If there are a few
packages I personally like to use which are not in the repos I don't say
anything. I always used packages from AUR and I never said anything
against it. But if those packages are getting more over time (in my
personal case it was from less than 50 to now more than 100 in 3 years),
because they are just moved from the binary repos to AUR, and if there
are packages which are not really unimportant - not only from my
personal point of view, and I'm not using all of those packages which
shall be moved to AUR now - then I say something, because I don't think
that this is right development of a distro.

And the importance of a package is not measured by how much some
developers or one single user are interested in or using it. It's rather
measured by how many users are using them, how popular they are, by how
many other projects they are recommended etc. Just a few examples.

And some of these packages which shall be moved to AUR are e.g. on the
list of recommended applications in the Xfce wiki. I don't think that
those packages are so unimportant.

So it's not my personal preferences. I try to see it from a quite
objective point of view.

And I have nothing against cleaning up a repo. But this should be done
more considered. Means only unimportant, unpopular packages or packages
which don't run anymore should be moved to AUR or removed completely but
not packages which likely belong to the most popular ones.

Heiko
 
Old 11-13-2010, 07:44 PM
Andrea Scarpino
 
Default repository cleanup

On Saturday 13 November 2010 14:46:30 Andrea Scarpino wrote:
> Nice, today we have 291 orphans packages in [extra] (they were 352 three
> days ago). 62 will be moved to [community]. 127 to AUR.
>
> I didn't expect this success. I can start moving them today if you agree.
>
> Full lists:
>
> <COMMUNITY>
> abuse
> agg
> alltray
> antiword
> arch
> bomberclone
> cdcd
> cddb_get
> centerim
> chntpw
> devil
> dia
> distcc
> dmenu
> dopewars
> elinks
> enigma
> epdfview
> fftw2
> gdk-pixbuf
> gocr
> httptunnel
> libnids
> librep
> libvisual-projectm
> mailman
> motion
> ngrep
> ntop
> nvclock
> patchutils
> prboom
> prelink
> privoxy
> projectm
> pyogg
> python-cheetah
> python-eyed3
> python-sqlobject
> pyvorbis
> qgit
> quilt
> rep-gtk
> sawfish
> silly
> slmodem
> slmodem-utils
> spidermonkey
> squashfs-tools
> tor
> twinkle
> unarj
> wmii
> words
> wput
> xboard
> xdialog
> xemacs
> xemacs-base
> xemacs-sumo
> xosd
> xskat
> </COMMUNITY>
>
> <AUR>
> 3ddesktop
> acct
> acidrip
> afterstep
> autofs
> biogrep
> biopython
> blassic
> bonnie++
> bootchart
> came
> ccrtp
> ccscript3
> cdlabelgen
> cdtool
> colortail
> commoncpp2
> corewars
> cpudyn
> cpufreqd
> crimson
> cssed
> culmus
> dbh
> ding
> dvdbackup
> eboard
> ed2k-gtk-gui
> evms
> flite
> galculator
> gcal
> gcombust
> gdeskcal
> gdesklets
> gift
> gift-fasttrack
> gift-gnutella
> gift-openft
> gimp-fourier
> glabels
> gmencoder
> gnomeicu
> gpart
> graveman
> gtick
> gtk1-engines
> gtkam
> gtklp
> gtk-smooth-engine
> gtkterm
> gtk-theme-switch
> gxine
> hexcurse
> hping
> httrack
> hugs98
> icmake
> imwheel
> ipvsadm
> irda-utils
> jed
> joe
> jpilot
> lesstifextensions
> libexif-gtk
> libixp
> libmal
> libmusepack
> libnjb
> libsexymm
> libzrtpcpp
> lincity
> linuxdcpp
> luola
> moon-buggy
> moon-lander
> mp3blaster
> mrxvt
> ne
> netselect
> pal
> pan
> parprouted
> pebrot
> pinball
> planner
> pure-ftpd
> python-vpython
> qof
> qstat
> rbldnsd
> revelation
> rockdodger
> root-tail
> rpmunpack
> screem
> seed
> smtpprox
> spamassassin-spamc
> swatch
> sylpheed
> synergy
> tcdr
> tcptraceroute
> tcsh
> thttpd
> tin
> tpb
> transset
> ttf-isabella
> ubuntulooks
> uml_utilities
> vacation
> vconfig
> viewglob
> webalizer
> wmix
> x2vnc
> xbl
> xdrawchem
> xfsdump
> xpyb
> xqf
> xtermcontrol
> xzgv
> yodl
> </AUR>
Everything moved except mailman which I want to keep in [extra] and ding which
Stefan wants to maintain in [community].
TUs please adopt your packages and thanks!

--
Andrea Scarpino
Arch Linux Developer
 
Old 11-13-2010, 11:07 PM
Allan McRae
 
Default repository cleanup

On 14/11/10 06:44, Andrea Scarpino wrote:


Everything moved except mailman which I want to keep in [extra] and ding which
Stefan wants to maintain in [community].
TUs please adopt your packages and thanks!



If mailman has someone that wants to maintain it in [community] I would
highly recommend moving it there. I have ended up being assigned as the
"maintain" on several occasions because I did a rebuild a couple of
years back with python-2.6. We do not even use the package for the
install of mailman on our server...


Allan
 
Old 11-14-2010, 12:36 AM
Ng Oon-Ee
 
Default repository cleanup

On Sat, 2010-11-13 at 17:32 +0100, Heiko Baums wrote:
>
> And I have nothing against cleaning up a repo. But this should be done
> more considered. Means only unimportant, unpopular packages or packages
> which don't run anymore should be moved to AUR or removed completely but
> not packages which likely belong to the most popular ones.
>
> Heiko

'Important' is defined from the perspective of the devs and TUs. I'm a
relative new-comer, but honestly the packages you mentioned I've never
even heard of, much less used.

Of course the packages *I* use are important, but only to *me*. Its not
really a good idea to extrapolate that to *generally important*
 

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