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Old 02-26-2009, 01:05 AM
Eduardo Romero
 
Default Move the catalyst drivers from extra to AUR/Community

Here it is,

Andreas Radke and I have talked about this and have come to a
conclusion. The ATI catalyst drivers are in a pitiful state and AMD is
doing close to nothing to improve the situation, they just take Linux as
a joke. At least, that is the impression one gets when nvidia releases
great drivers for Linux and ATI in the other hand is not showing any
promises in making their drivers better and well supported.

In the other hand the radeonhd driver, which is in extra shows some
promise, and so far have been good, they have been able to make a good
driver with only some documentation released by AMD, when AMD can't make
one while being the makers, go figure out.

This situation is worse in the x86_64 system, we have been stuck with
catalyst 8.12 while i686 has 9.2 already, because AMD just wanted to
break things at will, because their approach is very strange, break some
things to improve others.

That is why, we hope for a TU who can bring this drivers to community to
raise his hand and help us with this task. Please, if you want to give
catalyst the love they don't deserve but need, do not hesitate to offer
yourself as the new maintainer. In the worse case scenario where no one
raises his hand, the package should be moved to AUR. I personally would
not want this, so please TUs respond. A TU will be able to do what is
required for the best with this drivers, which includes making 9.2 and
later work with x86_64.

What do the other developers think? Any developer that wants to take
care of them?

PS: I do use this drivers, so I do care about them, but this is a choice
that had to be made.

Thanks,

Eduardo "kensai" Romero
 
Old 02-26-2009, 04:01 PM
Aaron Griffin
 
Default Move the catalyst drivers from extra to AUR/Community

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Eduardo Romero <k3nsai@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here it is,
>
> Andreas Radke and I have talked about this and have come to a
> conclusion. The ATI catalyst drivers are in a pitiful state and AMD is
> doing close to nothing to improve the situation, they just take Linux as
> a joke. At least, that is the impression one gets when nvidia releases
> great drivers for Linux and ATI in the other hand is not showing any
> promises in making their drivers better and well supported.
>
> In the other hand the radeonhd driver, which is in extra shows some
> promise, and so far have been good, they have been able to make a good
> driver with only some documentation released by AMD, when AMD can't make
> one while being the makers, go figure out.
>
> This situation is worse in the x86_64 system, we have been stuck with
> catalyst 8.12 while i686 has 9.2 already, because AMD just wanted to
> break things at will, because their approach is very strange, break some
> things to improve others.
>
> That is why, we hope for a TU who can bring this drivers to community to
> raise his hand and help us with this task. Please, if you want to give
> catalyst the love they don't deserve but need, do not hesitate to offer
> yourself as the new maintainer. In the worse case scenario where no one
> raises his hand, the package should be moved to AUR. I personally would
> not want this, so please TUs respond. A TU will be able to do what is
> required for the best with this drivers, which includes making 9.2 and
> later work with x86_64.
>
> What do the other developers think? Any developer that wants to take
> care of them?
>
> PS: I do use this drivers, so I do care about them, but this is a choice
> that had to be made.

Hmm. My thinkpad has an ATI card in it, and I stopped using the
catalyst drivers a LONG time ago (a year? I know Travis was still
packaging them when I stopped).

So, I guess my actual usage follows this pattern, so maybe it's the
right way to go.

Still, I wonder if this is going to anger a lot of people. Probably,
but if they're using catalyst right now they're probably angry at it
already

I'm all for removing shitty packages, but I fear that moving it to
community would be simply moving the shit around instead of dealing
with it. Perhaps, at this juncture, it would make more sense in the
AUR (we'd have to kindly ask the TUs not to package it though).
 
Old 02-26-2009, 04:38 PM
Aaron Griffin
 
Default Move the catalyst drivers from extra to AUR/Community

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Eduardo Romero <k3nsai@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 11:01 -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
>>
>> Hmm. My thinkpad has an ATI card in it, and I stopped using the
>> catalyst drivers a LONG time ago (a year? I know Travis was still
>> packaging them when I stopped).
>>
>> So, I guess my actual usage follows this pattern, so maybe it's the
>> right way to go.
>>
>> Still, I wonder if this is going to anger a lot of people. Probably,
>> but if they're using catalyst right now they're probably angry at it
>> already
>>
>> I'm all for removing shitty packages, but I fear that moving it to
>> community would be simply moving the shit around instead of dealing
>> with it. Perhaps, at this juncture, it would make more sense in the
>> AUR (we'd have to kindly ask the TUs not to package it though).
>
> My reason for it to go to community is so a TU can dedicate attention to
> it, Andreas does not want to waste time on fixing this drivers as they
> are of no particular interest to him. Maybe a TU in community can apply
> patches to make the x86_64 9.2 release to work. But well, I'm fine with
> moving them to AUR, there are some distributions that do not provide
> catalyst at all in any form, comes to mind paldo GNU/Linux.

Well, I guess what I was saying is: *can* we even fix it? I mean, if
they release a broken driver, we can't exactly patch some closed
source blob
 
Old 03-01-2009, 10:40 AM
Eduardo Romero
 
Default Move the catalyst drivers from extra to AUR/Community

Yeah, I tried to find a solution of how to work this out and keep catalyst
at least in community, but it seems, ATI/AMD just aren't doing a thing to
improve the situation. Yet, this package is so important for some users of
Arch Linux that a TU should be the one in charge of them.

- Cheers

Eduardo "kensai" Romero
 
Old 03-02-2009, 01:07 PM
Eduardo Romero
 
Default Move the catalyst drivers from extra to AUR/Community

This discussion have got some press coverage by phoronix:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzEwMg
And by distrowatch:
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090302#news

Well, some developers did not liked the press coverage we got from
phoronix, I have to say, I did liked it, they made it look more dramatic than
it was but we got outstanding support from the community. There were close
to no one against our decision. And yes the problem in part was the poor
quality of this drivers, so why try to deviate the attention from it?

All this have lead me to a conclusion, which was later reaffirmed by Pierrre
publishing the percentage of use for the graphics driver in Arch Linux. Those
results put catalyst below the open source driver xf86-video-ati.

Having seen all that, and the positive reaction of the community in the
places where this was covered (phoronix), having the blessing of Aaron
Griffin, and all other developers. I think it would be for the best to drop
support from this drivers and concentrate our efforts in the drivers that
really work, and are not but a pain to the developers.

I hereby grant the community the privilege to upload this drivers to
AUR/Community and take good care of them. Once they are uploaded on
AUR/Community I will proceed to delete them from extra and make a front
page news announcement.

No other objection?

-Thanks
Eduardo "kensai" Romero
 
Old 03-02-2009, 01:30 PM
Dusty Phillips
 
Default Move the catalyst drivers from extra to AUR/Community

2009/3/2 Eduardo Romero <k3nsai@gmail.com>:
> This discussion have got some press coverage by phoronix:
> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzEwMg
> And by distrowatch:
> http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090302#news
>
> Well, some developers did not liked the press coverage we got from
> phoronix, I have to say, I did liked it, they made it look more dramatic than
> it was but we got outstanding support from the community

ROFLMAO. It just goes to show you have to be more careful what you say
lest you be quoted out of context! ;-)

Dusty
 
Old 03-02-2009, 02:02 PM
Eduardo Romero
 
Default Move the catalyst drivers from extra to AUR/Community

On Monday 02 March 2009 10:30:04 am Dusty Phillips wrote:
> 2009/3/2 Eduardo Romero <k3nsai@gmail.com>:
> > This discussion have got some press coverage by phoronix:
> > http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzEwMg
> > And by distrowatch:
> > http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090302#news
> >
> > Well, some developers did not liked the press coverage we got from
> > phoronix, I have to say, I did liked it, they made it look more dramatic
> > than it was but we got outstanding support from the community
>
> ROFLMAO. It just goes to show you have to be more careful what you say
> lest you be quoted out of context! ;-)
>
> Dusty
Yeah, you know how the press is they just quote the bad things you say, and
leave out whatever good things you said about the subject. That happens
when one gets famous.
 
Old 03-05-2009, 06:57 PM
Travis Willard
 
Default Move the catalyst drivers from extra to AUR/Community

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Eduardo Romero <k3nsai@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hereby grant the community the privilege to upload this drivers to
> AUR/Community and take good care of them. Once they are uploaded on
> AUR/Community I will proceed to delete them from extra and make a front
> page news announcement.
>
> No other objection?

And hot on the heels of this decision - AMD's dropping support for
anything older than a Radeon HD 2000:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_r500_legacy&num=1
 
Old 03-06-2009, 01:38 AM
Eduardo Romero
 
Default Move the catalyst drivers from extra to AUR/Community

On Thursday 05 March 2009 03:57:19 pm Travis Willard wrote:
>
> And hot on the heels of this decision - AMD's dropping support for
> anything older than a Radeon HD 2000:
>
>
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_r500_legacy&num=1
And even hotter in the heels: ATI/AMT digs its own grave: 9.3 won't have
xorg-server 1.6 support, so we will have to wait until 9.4 in April, maybe
that will be middle to late april, so I say, as soon as someone takes this to
AUR or Community this should be removed without a pity, they just
demonstrate little seriousness to Linux and its support.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzExOQ

Wow, I'm starting to appreciate more and more my Nvidia card on my
desktop, I never have to pray for them to work after an upgrade, for ATI I
have to make a whole group of prayers for the sake of seeing the catalyst
driver boot up X fine after an upgrade.
 
Old 03-06-2009, 08:59 AM
Eduardo Romero
 
Default Move the catalyst drivers from extra to AUR/Community

On Friday 06 March 2009 04:38:53 am Jan de Groot wrote:
>
> AMD is digging catalysts grave, not their own. Don't forget that AMD has
> released specifications of all chips that are no longer supported by
> their catalyst.
Yeah sometimes I need to look at my phrasing, in fact I love AMD I have never
own another make of CPU, but well, is the catalyst driver to be blamed, so
sorry for the phrasing.
 

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