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Old 01-22-2009, 08:24 AM
Pierre Schmitz
 
Default phonon: gstreamer support will be dropped

In short: I have tested several use cases and gstreamer seems not to be
usable. So Id' like to disable support for it in upcoming phonon releases.

My problems with gstreamer:
* graphical glitches when playing some (most) mpeg files
* sometimes no sound
* bad image quality (no deinterlacing?)
* plugins depend on gnome
* it plays some videos with wrong aspect ratio
* does not seem to be a phonon problem; I had the same problems with totem;
using totem-xine fixed those.

So, future versions of phonon will only have the xine-backend enabled. Maybe
I'll provide other backends when we have the ability to split packages.

If you think this is a bad idea, let me know.
--

Pierre Schmitz


Clemens-August-Straße 76
53115 Bonn

Telefon 0228 9716608
Mobil 0160 95269831
Jabber pierre@jabber.archlinux.de
WWW http://www.archlinux.de
 
Old 01-22-2009, 06:30 PM
Aaron Griffin
 
Default phonon: gstreamer support will be dropped

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Pierre Schmitz <pierre@archlinux.de> wrote:
> In short: I have tested several use cases and gstreamer seems not to be
> usable. So Id' like to disable support for it in upcoming phonon releases.
>
> My problems with gstreamer:
> * graphical glitches when playing some (most) mpeg files
> * sometimes no sound
> * bad image quality (no deinterlacing?)
> * plugins depend on gnome
> * it plays some videos with wrong aspect ratio
> * does not seem to be a phonon problem; I had the same problems with totem;
> using totem-xine fixed those.
>
> So, future versions of phonon will only have the xine-backend enabled. Maybe
> I'll provide other backends when we have the ability to split packages.
>
> If you think this is a bad idea, let me know.

I've always hated gstreamer. I used to do a lot of work with
DirectShow on Win32, which involved this whole audio-video pipeline
setup crap. I remember saying "this is terrible. thank god that linux
is much easier in this aspect". A little bit later, gstreamer came
out, which does the same sort of stuff as DirectShow did.

So, rant aside, I am not a phonon user, but I support removal of
crappy software 8)
 
Old 01-22-2009, 08:57 PM
Jan de Groot
 
Default phonon: gstreamer support will be dropped

On Thu, 2009-01-22 at 13:30 -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
> So, rant aside, I am not a phonon user, but I support removal of
> crappy software 8)

Heh, linking each and every possible codec straight in your video player
makes it really flexible, stable and good. Don't even think about
possible licensing issues
 
Old 01-22-2009, 09:05 PM
Aaron Griffin
 
Default phonon: gstreamer support will be dropped

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Jan de Groot <jan@jgc.homeip.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-01-22 at 13:30 -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
>> So, rant aside, I am not a phonon user, but I support removal of
>> crappy software 8)
>
> Heh, linking each and every possible codec straight in your video player
> makes it really flexible, stable and good. Don't even think about
> possible licensing issues

I've never had a problem with mplayer related to codec issues (most
mplayer problems I've had were video driver related). Conversely, I
had more issues with gstreamer (when using quodlibet, I think) than I
can count. The best part is that the errors are unintelligible...

Re: licensing issues. If someone is serious about ffmpeg/mplayer
related licensing issues, it's fairly easy to build multiple packages.
IIRC ffmpeg's configure script even has a flag to set the license mode
to like "GPL only"... or something similar.
 
Old 01-23-2009, 05:54 AM
Tobias Kieslich
 
Default phonon: gstreamer support will be dropped

the xfce-4.6 mixer is entirely gstreamer based. and it is crappy (aka I
can't acces all the mixers that are actually available). Unfortunately,
there is no fall back ...

I understand any desire to get rid of gstreamer support.

-T
 
Old 01-23-2009, 09:32 AM
Eduardo Romero
 
Default phonon: gstreamer support will be dropped

Am I the only one that loves gstreamer? I mean I use totem and all the gstreamer-plugins there are, and there is not a single video format I can't play. And all is stable and configuration free.


On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Tobias Kieslich <tobias@justdreams.de> wrote:



the xfce-4.6 mixer is entirely gstreamer based. and it is crappy (aka I

can't acces all the mixers that are actually available). Unfortunately,

there is no fall back ...



I understand any desire to get rid of gstreamer support.



* * * *-T
 
Old 01-23-2009, 02:22 PM
Alberto Gonzalez
 
Default phonon: gstreamer support will be dropped

Hi,

[ This is in response to the thread in arch-devel here:
http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2009-January/009971.html ]

Regarding gstreamer support in phonon I'd like to add my 2 cents:

When you install KDE, you get the xine-phonon backend (and only the
xine-phonon backend) by default. If someone wants to use gstreamer he must
explicitly install it and then go to KDE control center and choose gstreamer.
So it's not so much that you're dropping support for it (it is not supported
by default anyway), it's rather the ability for anyone who wants to use it to
be able to do it what you're removing. What's the advantage of that?

Some people like xine better, some don't. If you use a laptop and care about
battery life you have to dislike xine for sure. In KDE3 I had to disable the
sound system. In KDE4 I had to switch to gstreamer backend. At least in KDE
4.2 they have fixed this to certain extent (i.e., no more 100's of CPU
wakeups per seconds on an idle desktop). However, I encourage you to simply
open Dragon player and leave it there idle while looking at powertop (and
compare the same while using gstreamer backend). You can also play an mp3 in
a phonon-based player and see the difference between xine and gstreamer.

By the end of the day, discussing the strengths of each backend is not so
interesting. Xine is the default and that's good. But why remove the freedom
to change it to gstreamer for those who want it? As far as I know, allowing
to use gstreamer doesn't affect in any way to those using xine, does it?

Gstreamer has its problems, but it's used by all the gnome people (most
Ubuntu/Fedora users and more) so it's can't be that bad. Not as to not allow
users to use it if they want to.

Thanks,
Alberto.
 
Old 01-23-2009, 04:49 PM
Aaron Griffin
 
Default phonon: gstreamer support will be dropped

On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Alberto Gonzalez <info@gnebu.es> wrote:
> Gstreamer has its problems, but it's used by all the gnome people (most
> Ubuntu/Fedora users and more) so it's can't be that bad. Not as to not allow
> users to use it if they want to.

I'm fairly certain Pierre is not saying "screw choice!" here. It looks
to me like he's saying "oh god, this is WAY too buggy and I don't want
our users using something this broken". That said, i'm sure the
PKGBUILD will still be around somewhere, so anyone who wants to can
still build the package themselves
 
Old 01-23-2009, 05:04 PM
Paulo Matias
 
Default phonon: gstreamer support will be dropped

Hi,

On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Alberto Gonzalez <info@gnebu.es> wrote:
> Gstreamer has its problems, but it's used by all the gnome people (most
> Ubuntu/Fedora users and more) so it's can't be that bad. Not as to not allow
> users to use it if they want to.

The last time I checked, sound didn't work with the Xine backend when
using OSS - http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OSS#KDE_Phonon

Later I will check if this problem still persists and see if there is
a solution for making it to work with the Xine backend.

Does someone already has a solution or knows if it is working now?


Best regards,

Paulo Matias
 
Old 01-23-2009, 05:18 PM
Alberto Gonzalez
 
Default phonon: gstreamer support will be dropped

On Friday 23 January 2009, Aaron Griffin wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Alberto Gonzalez <info@gnebu.es> wrote:
> > Gstreamer has its problems, but it's used by all the gnome people (most
> > Ubuntu/Fedora users and more) so it's can't be that bad. Not as to not
> > allow users to use it if they want to.
>
> I'm fairly certain Pierre is not saying "screw choice!" here. It looks
> to me like he's saying "oh god, this is WAY too buggy and I don't want
> our users using something this broken". That said, i'm sure the
> PKGBUILD will still be around somewhere, so anyone who wants to can
> still build the package themselves

"I don't want our users using something this broken" is not a good idea, IMHO.
No one is going to use it unless they want to. They have to actually install
it and configure KDE to use it. Why remove this _option_? I'm sorry that
Gstreamer doesn't work for Pierre, but for many others it does (while xine
doesn't, for other reasons I already mentioned).

So what I say is: If the phonon developers allow to use different backends,
let's just don't limit them for no good reason (a good reason would be more
like: "compiling support for Gstreamer breaks Xine", not "I don't like
Gstreamer, it doesn't work for me". As I said, it's not like Gstreamer is an
obscure or experimental multimedia framework, it's probably the most used one
in the Unix world, so it can't be that bad for everyone).
 

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