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Old 07-20-2008, 12:09 AM
"Dan McGee"
 
Default Please stop the install message insanity

Wow, I got blasted today with an 88 package upgrade on one of my
machines, and this one really stuck out:
http://repos.archlinux.org/viewvc.cgi/lighttpd/trunk/lighttpd.install?revision=4866&view=markup

I don't even know what is important anymore, so I just stopped reading
as I'm sure most of our users do too.

1. *Please* use optdepends for things like:
* mod_webdav : libxml2, sqlite3, e2fsprogs
* mod_cml : lua
* mod_magnet : lua
* mod_trigger_b4_dl : gdbm
* mod_mysql_vhost : libmysqlclient

2. Showing me these optional things every single time I install is
stupid. Use optdepends and educate people to use -Qi.

3. If you are going to do an install message, at least indent it
right. Why the heck was everything tabbed over here?

4. Don't keep one-upping every other install message to make sure
yours looks important. The number of ++++++++>>>>>>>>> and
===========> and --------------> >> >>> !!!L#K!J#KL:!#KL:@#:%HKL: is
getting out of control.

OK, I'm done ranting, but I hope someone at least reads this.

-Dan
 
Old 07-20-2008, 06:01 PM
Jan de Groot
 
Default Please stop the install message insanity

On Sat, 2008-07-19 at 19:09 -0500, Dan McGee wrote:
> 2. Showing me these optional things every single time I install is
> stupid. Use optdepends and educate people to use -Qi.

What about storing this information in the package database and let
pacman use the information when installing/upgrading. On debian, when I
install something with apt-get, it tells me that some packages are
getting installed, and also tells me there's some suggested packages
that you could install. In addition to that, aptitude just installs all
the optional crap in the "suggests" fields. I don't like the aptitude
behaviour, but I can imagine new users would like to have a flag for
pacman that just installs all optional features.

I do agree that these install scriptlets for messages is getting out of
control. Another thing is that once you've installed a package and
deleted pacman.log, you won't have any other way that
catting /var/lib/pacman/local/pkgname/install to find out what are the
optional dependencies.
 
Old 07-21-2008, 08:11 AM
"James Rayner"
 
Default Please stop the install message insanity

On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Dan McGee <dpmcgee@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, I got blasted today with an 88 package upgrade on one of my
> machines, and this one really stuck out:
> http://repos.archlinux.org/viewvc.cgi/lighttpd/trunk/lighttpd.install?revision=4866&view=markup
>
> I don't even know what is important anymore, so I just stopped reading
> as I'm sure most of our users do too.
>
> 1. *Please* use optdepends for things like:
> * mod_webdav : libxml2, sqlite3, e2fsprogs
> * mod_cml : lua
> * mod_magnet : lua
> * mod_trigger_b4_dl : gdbm
> * mod_mysql_vhost : libmysqlclient
>
> 2. Showing me these optional things every single time I install is
> stupid. Use optdepends and educate people to use -Qi.
>
> 3. If you are going to do an install message, at least indent it
> right. Why the heck was everything tabbed over here?
>
> 4. Don't keep one-upping every other install message to make sure
> yours looks important. The number of ++++++++>>>>>>>>> and
> ===========> and --------------> >> >>> !!!L#K!J#KL:!#KL:@#:%HKL: is
> getting out of control.

========================================
Was about time it was said, it's annoyed me a bit too.. like the extra
formatting.

Btw, why do some people persist on
manually line wrapping messages...
any decent terminal and text editor
can wrap without any problems.

========================================

James
 
Old 07-21-2008, 08:19 AM
Thomas Bächler
 
Default Please stop the install message insanity

Dan McGee schrieb:

Wow, I got blasted today with an 88 package upgrade on one of my
machines, and this one really stuck out:
http://repos.archlinux.org/viewvc.cgi/lighttpd/trunk/lighttpd.install?revision=4866&view=markup

I don't even know what is important anymore, so I just stopped reading
as I'm sure most of our users do too.


The most annoying thing is that post_install messages are displayed
post_upgrade (example: dnsmasq) or that a post_upgrade message that
should be tied to a specific version is displayed every time.
 
Old 07-21-2008, 05:22 PM
"Aaron Griffin"
 
Default Please stop the install message insanity

On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Jan de Groot <jan@jgc.homeip.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-07-19 at 19:09 -0500, Dan McGee wrote:
>> 2. Showing me these optional things every single time I install is
>> stupid. Use optdepends and educate people to use -Qi.
>
> What about storing this information in the package database and let
> pacman use the information when installing/upgrading. On debian, when I
> install something with apt-get, it tells me that some packages are
> getting installed, and also tells me there's some suggested packages
> that you could install. In addition to that, aptitude just installs all
> the optional crap in the "suggests" fields. I don't like the aptitude
> behaviour, but I can imagine new users would like to have a flag for
> pacman that just installs all optional features.
>
> I do agree that these install scriptlets for messages is getting out of
> control. Another thing is that once you've installed a package and
> deleted pacman.log, you won't have any other way that
> catting /var/lib/pacman/local/pkgname/install to find out what are the
> optional dependencies.

Yeah, optdepends was intended to go this route. Right now it's only
viewable with -Qi, but that's just as good as the install scriptlet
messages.

I think at some point I wanted to add in a "list optional" command
that would list all optdepends for installed packages and the reasons.

I agree with Dan. Please use optdepends for this. The format (please
correct me if I'm wrong) is something like:
optdepends=("foobar: install this to make babies"
"barfoo: this one adds a peppery aftertaste"
"baz: for those of you using a diesel powered barbie doll")
 
Old 07-21-2008, 09:23 PM
Paul Mattal
 
Default Please stop the install message insanity

Thomas Bächler wrote:

Dan McGee schrieb:

Wow, I got blasted today with an 88 package upgrade on one of my
machines, and this one really stuck out:
http://repos.archlinux.org/viewvc.cgi/lighttpd/trunk/lighttpd.install?revision=4866&view=markup



I don't even know what is important anymore, so I just stopped reading
as I'm sure most of our users do too.


The most annoying thing is that post_install messages are displayed
post_upgrade (example: dnsmasq) or that a post_upgrade message that
should be tied to a specific version is displayed every time.


Agreed.

Thanks for pointing that out. I changed this to a post_install in
dnsmasq 2.43-2, not post_upgrade, since this one you have to read the
first time and not thereafter.


- P
 
Old 07-21-2008, 09:51 PM
Eduardo Romero
 
Default Please stop the install message insanity

On Sat, 2008-07-19 at 19:09 -0500, Dan McGee wrote:
>
> OK, I'm done ranting, but I hope someone at least reads this.
>
> -Dan
>
As soon as I read this I changed my wine package to use optdepends
instead, so I strongly agree with this. I think we should chnage
accordingly. For the next wine release it will just tell, "In order to
see all the optional dependencies of the wine package, issue the
following command: 'pacman -Qi wine'". Thanks for your ranting, it does
leaves a possitive effect.

Cheers

Eduardo "kensai" Romero
 
Old 07-29-2008, 10:58 PM
Amanai
 
Default Please stop the install message insanity

I think you are wrong. I am using MC, because of old days This message
from 7z gave me a new idea! I don't use much p7z (never i think) but a lot
MC. If you don't know you don't search for it in a wiki. See, this is
education! I like those tool tips


On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:56:52 -0700, Aaron Schaefer <aaron@elasticdog.com>
wrote:



I don't have a lot to offer as fas as suggestions on implementation,
but did want to say that I too find the over use of install messages
to be annoying, and it really should only show up on a first
installation of the particular version of software it applies too. If
it could be referenced later, that would be nice, but it doesn't need
to be there every time.

One in particular that stood out for me on a recent upgrade was p7zip's
message:


:: In order to use p7zip with mc:
:: Add u7z to /usr/share/mc/extfs/extfs.ini
:: and add the following to /usr/share/mc/mc.ext:
::
:: regex/.(7z|7Z)$
:: View=%view{ascii} 7za l %f
:: Open=%cd %p#u7z

I do not have mc installed, nor do I think this should be in an
installation message even if I did. If you think it's important, or a
good tip for other people, put stuff like that in the wiki. Anyway,
that's just my $0.02

--
Aaron "ElasticDog" Schaefer
 
Old 07-30-2008, 07:58 AM
Pierre Chapuis
 
Default Please stop the install message insanity

Le Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:28:35 +0000,
"Abhishek Dasgupta" <abhidg@gmail.com> a écrit :

> If a package really has to give an install msg which pertains
> to some other package then it should first check if that
> package exists (pacman -Q ... is it possible to call pacman
> from within the post install scripts?), and then print it out.

A workaround would be to check if a specific file exists, or if something is in PATH. I use something like that in one of my AUR packages (LTSA) :

which mc > /dev/null 2> /dev/null
if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then
do_something
fi

--
catwell
 

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