FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > ArchLinux > ArchLinux Development

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 06-28-2008, 11:34 PM
"Dan McGee"
 
Default Java on archlinux

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 6:29 PM, Jan de Groot <jan@jgc.homeip.net> wrote:
> As some people have noticed, I put a lot of effort in getting a free
> java runtime and SDK on archlinux, using GNU java, Eclipse-ecj and some
> other free tools, wrapped in java-gcj-compat.
>
> The downside of this whole project is that it's stuck at java 5.0, the
> runtime isn't certified (the eclipse compiler is) and there's no more
> effort put into this project by redhat.
>
> Since a while, there's an alternative to java-gcj-compat, called
> icedtea. This project is based on openjdk, with the difference that
> missing pieces of openjdk are filled in with parts from GNU classpath.
> One example is the webbrowser plugin, that has been missing from x86_64
> since java's existence for this platform. The icedtea6 java environment
> passes sun's testsuite, making it a full blown GPL'ed java environment
> that is compatible with Sun's java. As it's developed by redhat, it also
> compiles fine with GCC 4.3, which we can't say about openjdk.
>
> I would propose to package icedtea/openjdk for archlinux and make it the
> prefered java environment. Packaging this java environment requires a
> java compiler, our current free java platform is able to build
> icedtea/openjdk from source.
> This means that only java tools and packages required to build
> icedtea/openjdk will get built with gcj/ecj/java-gcj-compat, others will
> get built with icedtea/openjdk.
Can't we bootstrap compile it the first time?

> Making this switch means no official support for java-gcj-compat
> anymore. If something continues working with java-gcj-compat, it's nice,
> but if it doesn't, we don't consider it a bug.
>
> Please let me know what your thoughts are about this change.

On the whole, sounds like a good idea to me. I know Arch used to have
the idea that we preferred one tool for the job, and as long as we
make it clear that our Java environment will be icedtea, we are
picking one tool we will actively keep on top of.

-Dan
 
Old 06-28-2008, 11:52 PM
Jan de Groot
 
Default Java on archlinux

On Sat, 2008-06-28 at 18:34 -0500, Dan McGee wrote:
> > I would propose to package icedtea/openjdk for archlinux and make it
> the
> > prefered java environment. Packaging this java environment requires
> a
> > java compiler, our current free java platform is able to build
> > icedtea/openjdk from source.
> > This means that only java tools and packages required to build
> > icedtea/openjdk will get built with gcj/ecj/java-gcj-compat, others
> will
> > get built with icedtea/openjdk.
> Can't we bootstrap compile it the first time?

Yes, we can. But that will create a circular build-dependency on itself.
We already have this problem with gcc-java/eclipse-ecj that (make)depend
on eachother.
The gcc-java/eclipse-ecj dependency loop is easy to solve, as we can
upload an architecture-neutral jarfile to FTP and use that in the
future. Building icedtea/openjdk actually only requires gcc-java, the
eclipse-ecj.jar file and xalan-java. This is a minimal set of
makedepends, we could eventually drop the rest of the java-gcj-compat
environment (java-gcj-compat, gjdoc) if we want.
 
Old 06-29-2008, 02:19 AM
Dale Blount
 
Default Java on archlinux

> Please let me know what your thoughts are about this change.

+1 for anything that'll get me a working x86_64 java browser plugin that
works well.

Dale
 
Old 06-29-2008, 08:47 AM
Andreas Radke
 
Default Java on archlinux

Am Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:29:11 +0200
schrieb Jan de Groot <jan@jgc.homeip.net>:

> As some people have noticed, I put a lot of effort in getting a free
> java runtime and SDK on archlinux, using GNU java, Eclipse-ecj and
> some other free tools, wrapped in java-gcj-compat.
>
> The downside of this whole project is that it's stuck at java 5.0, the
> runtime isn't certified (the eclipse compiler is) and there's no more
> effort put into this project by redhat.
>
> Since a while, there's an alternative to java-gcj-compat, called
> icedtea. This project is based on openjdk, with the difference that
> missing pieces of openjdk are filled in with parts from GNU classpath.
> One example is the webbrowser plugin, that has been missing from
> x86_64 since java's existence for this platform. The icedtea6 java
> environment passes sun's testsuite, making it a full blown GPL'ed
> java environment that is compatible with Sun's java. As it's
> developed by redhat, it also compiles fine with GCC 4.3, which we
> can't say about openjdk.
>
> I would propose to package icedtea/openjdk for archlinux and make it
> the prefered java environment. Packaging this java environment
> requires a java compiler, our current free java platform is able to
> build icedtea/openjdk from source.
> This means that only java tools and packages required to build
> icedtea/openjdk will get built with gcj/ecj/java-gcj-compat, others
> will get built with icedtea/openjdk.
> Making this switch means no official support for java-gcj-compat
> anymore. If something continues working with java-gcj-compat, it's
> nice, but if it doesn't, we don't consider it a bug.
>
> Please let me know what your thoughts are about this change.
>

+1 from me. Most work seems to done already in the AUR packages.

But then we should also drop providing SUN's jre/jdk in extra.
Let's support only free software. Let's put SUN stuff back to AUR. That
also solves probable license issues.

-AndyRTR
 
Old 06-29-2008, 09:20 AM
Jan de Groot
 
Default Java on archlinux

On Sun, 2008-06-29 at 10:47 +0200, Andreas Radke wrote:
> +1 from me. Most work seems to done already in the AUR packages.
>
> But then we should also drop providing SUN's jre/jdk in extra.
> Let's support only free software. Let's put SUN stuff back to AUR.
> That
> also solves probable license issues.

Both JRE/JDKs are compatible with eachother. The licensing of Sun
JRE/JDK is "free" also due to the distribution license they put on it.
This means we can distribute it with our distribution for free. This
means there's no licensing issue, so we're allowed to have it in the
repositories, either extra or community.

I don't know what the current maintainer thinks about keeping JDK/JRE,
but if he insists on keeping it, we'll keep it. If he decides to drop
it, we'll drop it and place it in community.
 
Old 06-29-2008, 09:54 AM
Daniel Isenmann
 
Default Java on archlinux

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:29:11 +0200
Jan de Groot <jan@jgc.homeip.net> wrote:


> Please let me know what your thoughts are about this change.

+1 from my side. It's sound good for me.

Daniel
 
Old 06-29-2008, 12:51 PM
Pierre Schmitz
 
Default Java on archlinux

Am Sonntag, 29. Juni 2008 01:29:11 schrieb Jan de Groot:
> Making this switch means no official support for java-gcj-compat
> anymore. If something continues working with java-gcj-compat, it's nice,
> but if it doesn't, we don't consider it a bug.
>
> Please let me know what your thoughts are about this change.

A working OS Java would be really nice. gcj wasn't a real alternative. How
difficult is it to package?

Maybe we could test it a while; but in the end I wouldn't mind replacing jdk
by openjdk if everything works fine.

Pierre

--
http://www.archlinux.de
 
Old 06-29-2008, 01:44 PM
Paul Mattal
 
Default Java on archlinux

Jan de Groot wrote:

On Sun, 2008-06-29 at 10:47 +0200, Andreas Radke wrote:

+1 from me. Most work seems to done already in the AUR packages.

But then we should also drop providing SUN's jre/jdk in extra.
Let's support only free software. Let's put SUN stuff back to AUR.
That
also solves probable license issues.


Both JRE/JDKs are compatible with eachother. The licensing of Sun
JRE/JDK is "free" also due to the distribution license they put on it.
This means we can distribute it with our distribution for free. This
means there's no licensing issue, so we're allowed to have it in the
repositories, either extra or community.

I don't know what the current maintainer thinks about keeping JDK/JRE,
but if he insists on keeping it, we'll keep it. If he decides to drop
it, we'll drop it and place it in community.


Hi.

Didn't realize this discussion was going to get into Sun JDK/JRE. Since
they are free, and still provide the best compatibility around, I don't
see why we should drop them.


Has anyone found circumstances in which the Sun JDK and JRE have been
inadequate for their Java needs? I recognize that it's possible that one
day OpenJDK will actually lead the pack, given the way the Java world is
moving, but I don't think that day is yet, and generally prefer to be
using the reference JVM wherever possible.


- P
 
Old 06-29-2008, 03:38 PM
Jan de Groot
 
Default Java on archlinux

On Sun, 2008-06-29 at 14:51 +0200, Pierre Schmitz wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 29. Juni 2008 01:29:11 schrieb Jan de Groot:
> > Making this switch means no official support for java-gcj-compat
> > anymore. If something continues working with java-gcj-compat, it's nice,
> > but if it doesn't, we don't consider it a bug.
> >
> > Please let me know what your thoughts are about this change.
>
> A working OS Java would be really nice. gcj wasn't a real alternative. How
> difficult is it to package?
>
> Maybe we could test it a while; but in the end I wouldn't mind replacing jdk
> by openjdk if everything works fine.

packaging isn't so difficult. It's nothing more than just downloading
openjdk sources, icedtea6 sources, applying a patch so openjdk knows to
find some important system binaries in /bin instead of /usr/bin (these
are in AUR), then running configure and make from the icedtea6 sources
and as final step, package up the resulting java sdk/jre directories in
the same way we do for the current JDK/JRE packages.

The AUR PKGBUILD contains a lot of patches and special steps to get this
thing built, but I don't see the need to do it that way. I'ld like to
keep this thing as vanilla as possible.
 
Old 06-29-2008, 05:36 PM
Thomas Bächler
 
Default Java on archlinux

Jan de Groot schrieb:

Since a while, there's an alternative to java-gcj-compat, called
icedtea. This project is based on openjdk, with the difference that
missing pieces of openjdk are filled in with parts from GNU classpath.
One example is the webbrowser plugin, that has been missing from x86_64
since java's existence for this platform. The icedtea6 java environment
passes sun's testsuite, making it a full blown GPL'ed java environment
that is compatible with Sun's java. As it's developed by redhat, it also
compiles fine with GCC 4.3, which we can't say about openjdk.


I always wanted to try openjdk/icedtea, but was too confused by the
different packages in AUR. The PKGBUILDs were difficult to read and
seemed to do "too much".




I would propose to package icedtea/openjdk for archlinux and make it the
prefered java environment. Packaging this java environment requires a
java compiler, our current free java platform is able to build
icedtea/openjdk from source.


A nice and clean package that gives me a fully compatible Java runtime
and a browser plugin would be very good. +16 from me.


As you said java-gcj-compat didn't work too well, at least with the
browser plugin.
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 08:15 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright ©2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org