Hi all,

I have reverted to using OpenBox as WM rather than the Leviathan GNOME
desktop. Basically because GNOME is so s l o w on this machine (1GHz
CPU + 256M RAM), it was actually affecting my productivity. There are
some convenience functions that I miss, but mostly it's just a relief to
be back on a more lightweight and customisable desktop.

My desktop furniture is currently provided by rox, fbpanel and gkrellm -
all of which have their limitations, but they're all gtk apps so the
appearance is coherent. I'm wondering if there have been any
developments in this area that I've missed. I might try e17, but somehow
I doubt that I'm going to like it any more than e16, I'm actually quite
happy with OpenBox as WM, but I'd be interested to find a more dynamic
panel app. It would also be useful to figure out how to quickly
configure rox to behave how I want it. The lack of default file
associations is slightly annoying, but overall it's great not to have to
wait for menus and new windows to appear. The one thing I'd really like
to fix is the default font-size, which is frighteningly small.

Just thinking out loud really.

cheers,

tim

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tim hall wrote:
> I have reverted to using OpenBox as WM rather than the Leviathan GNOME
> desktop. Basically because GNOME is so s l o w on this machine (1GHz
> CPU + 256M RAM), it was actually affecting my productivity. There are
> some convenience functions that I miss, but mostly it's just a relief to
> be back on a more lightweight and customisable desktop.
>
Both machines here are hefty enough to handle GNOME, KDE, or any other
desktop environment. Nevertheless, I always ditch the default desktop in
favor of a more lightweight solution. I think the modern Linux desktop
is a wonderful thing for new users and people who do not want to squeeze
every nanoparticle of performance they can get out of a machine. Alas,
for me it's just more stuff in the way.

I used Blackbox for a long while on my Planet CCRMA systems. I now use
Fluxbox on 64 Studio and JAD. I tried e17 (or whatever version it was),
thought it was nice but filled with knick-knacks & gewgaws unnecessary
for my purposes. Fluxbox now rules here. I have no need for panels,
meters, or anything other than a pop-up menu for my app selections,
though I imagine that all that stuff will work well with Fluxbox too.

I'm sure you're aware that 265 MB is a rather miniscule amount for
running something like GNOME on a 1 GHz CPU. More RAM is always a nice
solution.

Best,

dp



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On Fri, 09 May 2008 07:30:43 -0400
Dave Phillips <dlphilp@linux-sound.org> wrote:

> tim hall wrote:
> > I have reverted to using OpenBox as WM rather than the Leviathan GNOME
> > desktop. Basically because GNOME is so s l o w on this machine (1GHz
> > CPU + 256M RAM), it was actually affecting my productivity. There are
> > some convenience functions that I miss, but mostly it's just a relief to
> > be back on a more lightweight and customisable desktop.
> >
> Both machines here are hefty enough to handle GNOME, KDE, or any other
> desktop environment. Nevertheless, I always ditch the default desktop in
> favor of a more lightweight solution. I think the modern Linux desktop
> is a wonderful thing for new users and people who do not want to squeeze
> every nanoparticle of performance they can get out of a machine. Alas,
> for me it's just more stuff in the way.
>
> I used Blackbox for a long while on my Planet CCRMA systems. I now use
> Fluxbox on 64 Studio and JAD. I tried e17 (or whatever version it was),
> thought it was nice but filled with knick-knacks & gewgaws unnecessary
> for my purposes. Fluxbox now rules here. I have no need for panels,
> meters, or anything other than a pop-up menu for my app selections,
> though I imagine that all that stuff will work well with Fluxbox too.
>
> I'm sure you're aware that 265 MB is a rather miniscule amount for
> running something like GNOME on a 1 GHz CPU. More RAM is always a nice
> solution.
>
> Best,
>
> dp

For what it's worth, I've been running ROX on 64studio for, well as
long as I can remember knowing about 64studio

Originally I use OroboROX for the wm but about a year ago I switched to
OpenBox, and never regretted it.

There are only two permanent features on my desktop, qjackctl & gkrellm

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk

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Folderol wrote:
> On Fri, 09 May 2008 07:30:43 -0400
> Dave Phillips <dlphilp@linux-sound.org> wrote:
>
>
>> tim hall wrote:
>>
>>> I have reverted to using OpenBox as WM rather than the Leviathan GNOME
>>> desktop. Basically because GNOME is so s l o w on this machine (1GHz
>>> CPU + 256M RAM), it was actually affecting my productivity. There are
>>> some convenience functions that I miss, but mostly it's just a relief to
>>> be back on a more lightweight and customisable desktop.
>>>
>>>
>> Both machines here are hefty enough to handle GNOME, KDE, or any other
>> desktop environment. Nevertheless, I always ditch the default desktop in
>> favor of a more lightweight solution. I think the modern Linux desktop
>> is a wonderful thing for new users and people who do not want to squeeze
>> every nanoparticle of performance they can get out of a machine. Alas,
>> for me it's just more stuff in the way.
>>
>> I used Blackbox for a long while on my Planet CCRMA systems. I now use
>> Fluxbox on 64 Studio and JAD. I tried e17 (or whatever version it was),
>> thought it was nice but filled with knick-knacks & gewgaws unnecessary
>> for my purposes. Fluxbox now rules here. I have no need for panels,
>> meters, or anything other than a pop-up menu for my app selections,
>> though I imagine that all that stuff will work well with Fluxbox too.
>>
>> I'm sure you're aware that 265 MB is a rather miniscule amount for
>> running something like GNOME on a 1 GHz CPU. More RAM is always a nice
>> solution.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> dp
>>
>
> For what it's worth, I've been running ROX on 64studio for, well as
> long as I can remember knowing about 64studio
>
> Originally I use OroboROX for the wm but about a year ago I switched to
> OpenBox, and never regretted it.
>
> There are only two permanent features on my desktop, qjackctl & gkrellm
>

Is there really the need of special panels for smaller WMs? Why not
using another kind of windows management as the familiar kind.
Today I'm using 64studio with KDE/KWin but with my old hardware I have
been pleasant with Ion2. IMO: I don't think that there is the need of
panels because it's possible to use tabs while everything is within the
frames instead of regular windows. Things like hardware monitoring are
possible by a terminal emulation running e.g. top by e.g. Tilda or
Yakuake appearing after pushing an F-key. There are only a few
applications that will be finer with a classic WM but most are
comfortable to work with. If there is no need to have an especial
comfortable DE and GNOME, Fluxbox etc. seems to me not to be such DEs, I
always would try Ion2. The only DE with maximized comfort seems to be KDE.

Cheers,
Ralf

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Dave Phillips wrote:
> tim hall wrote:
>> I have reverted to using OpenBox as WM rather than the Leviathan GNOME
>> desktop. Basically because GNOME is so s l o w on this machine (1GHz
>> CPU + 256M RAM), it was actually affecting my productivity. There are
>> some convenience functions that I miss, but mostly it's just a relief
>> to be back on a more lightweight and customisable desktop.
>>
> Both machines here are hefty enough to handle GNOME, KDE, or any other
> desktop environment. Nevertheless, I always ditch the default desktop in
> favor of a more lightweight solution. I think the modern Linux desktop
> is a wonderful thing for new users and people who do not want to squeeze
> every nanoparticle of performance they can get out of a machine. Alas,
> for me it's just more stuff in the way.
>
> I used Blackbox for a long while on my Planet CCRMA systems. I now use
> Fluxbox on 64 Studio and JAD. I tried e17 (or whatever version it was),
> thought it was nice but filled with knick-knacks & gewgaws unnecessary
> for my purposes. Fluxbox now rules here. I have no need for panels,
> meters, or anything other than a pop-up menu for my app selections,
> though I imagine that all that stuff will work well with Fluxbox too.
>
> I'm sure you're aware that 265 MB is a rather miniscule amount for
> running something like GNOME on a 1 GHz CPU. More RAM is always a nice
> solution.

Yeah. It's one of my recycled machines and the Mobo only takes 100Mhz
SDRAM - the only possible improvement would be to find a matched pair of
256MB slices, which is about as hopeful as finding a spare big-end for a
Renault 8. At some point I will replace it with something built in the
current millennium, but I can't help trying to extend the machine's life
as it really Ain't Broke yet. ;-)

Mostly I was wondering whether anybody knew of any desktop agnostic
panel apps, which were as easy to configure as fbpanel, but supported
more features like drag'n'drop. I did look at pypanel once, I mean, I
daresay I could write my own in Python now if it really came to it, but
I don't think Python would be fast enough for a desktop mainstay.

It's not like a major issue, that said, it's always good to compare
notes with you. :-)

cheers,

tim

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tim hall wrote:
> Yeah. It's one of my recycled machines and the Mobo only takes 100Mhz
> SDRAM - the only possible improvement would be to find a matched pair of
> 256MB slices, which is about as hopeful as finding a spare big-end for a
> Renault 8. At some point I will replace it with something built in the
> current millennium, but I can't help trying to extend the machine's life
> as it really Ain't Broke yet. ;-)

Hi

I don't know how much the costs are for traffic on a homepage and I
don't know how time-consuming it will be to program a second forum for
hardware but maybe this isn't a problem, so perhaps it will be possible
to have a special hardware forum on http://www.64studio.com/ so that
people can give away things they'll through away. I don't think it will
be wise to mix it with the existing hardware forum.

For a European I'm very poor compared to other parts of the world I'm
very rich and I think that everybody who can use the internet will have
the money to through away things and buy new things but I think we
shouldn't do that.

Maybe at this minute the man next door to Tim will through away his SDRAM.

Why can't I find a bank connection on http://www.64studio.com/ for
donations? Some people can't spend 15,00 EUR and they don't need the
support but maybe 30 people will give 0,50 EUR as a donation.

Cheers,
Ralf

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Hi Tim,

> the only possible improvement would be to find a matched pair of
> 256MB slices, which is about as hopeful as finding a spare big-end for a
> Renault 8.

Try the Memory Advisor tool at http://www.crucial.com/uk/
It saves buying incompatible RAM.

However it may be a false economy to buy new RAM for this board. You can
get an ASUS motherboard, dual core AMD64 processor and 2GB RAM for under
£100 now.

As for the Renault spares, eBay is probably your only chance :-)

Cheers!

Daniel


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Hi Ralf,

> perhaps it will be possible
> to have a special hardware forum on http://www.64studio.com/ so that
> people can give away things they'll through away.

That's a excellent idea, I'll implement it now.

> Why can't I find a bank connection on http://www.64studio.com/ for
> donations? Some people can't spend 15,00 EUR and they don't need the
> support but maybe 30 people will give 0,50 EUR as a donation.

So far we've not asked for donations because we're set up as a business
rather than a not-for-profit or charity. Our bandwidth costs for
providing free downloads would be very considerable, except for the fact
that we have great mirror sites.

In the future we may have a web shop selling hardware and relevant
books, the profit from which we would use to fund development.

Cheers!

Daniel


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Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> Maybe at this minute the man next door to Tim will through away his SDRAM.

:-)

Indeed, we have a local freecycle. :-) I have done quite well so far,
getting most of what I have needed from local office clear-outs.

> Why can't I find a bank connection on http://www.64studio.com/ for
> donations? Some people can't spend 15,00 EUR and they don't need the
> support but maybe 30 people will give 0,50 EUR as a donation.

Because it just felt wrong, to be honest. We really value our little
community of testers and would far sooner encourage people to give of
their time if money is an issue - that's how I got into this in the
first place. 30 people reporting and fixing bugs, swapping tips and
recording great music is probably of much greater benefit to the distro.

Recycled machines are very useful for Minimum System Requirements
testing. This means that we can be sure that 64 Studio will still run on
10 year-old hardware and that people can join in the fun without
necessarily having the 500 - 1500 Euro to buy a new machine.

Thanks for your thoughts,

tim



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